Back in the air yesterday at last after a lay-off of almost 4 months. Perfect weather for some general handling revision and a few circuits with an instructor for comfort and guidance. On the third circuit Lelystad anounced a straight in procedure so it seemed only polite to let the biz-jet have priority and I flew an extremely long downwind for spacing. I reckon I was about three minutes behind the Citation. Turning final I stayed high with the aim of touching down beyond his landing point to avoid any problem with wake turbulence. Everything went according to plan as we continued the approach, watching the jet vacate at the end of EHLE 23 when at 300ft all hell broke loose. I was flipped on to one side hanging at 90 degrees with a very different view of the runway. Full power and a go around saved the day but I really had not expected the problem.
Turned out it was not one of the smaller Citations but a Sovereign X. Lesson learnt.
Yes those vortices have a tendency to bounce back up from time to time. Glad you made it.
Scary! I actually wasn’t aware that some Citations are well inside turbulence category M.
Thanks for sharing the story! What confuses me: did EHLE tower really clear you to land so short after? I should expect them to know the wake turbulence effect of the various plane types, and at least to give warning?
But you do seem to have cleared the medical issue, or you’d not be flying?
I fly from an airport with a lot of big iron traffic.
Got to admit I have never heared of such a situation that those nasty vortices bounce back up.
Obviously it is the pilot’s responsibility to space correctly.
There is the 2 minute rule and to stay_well_ above the glide slope when landing behind say a 737.
My plan has always been to touch down just before, or after the jet’s turn off.
Hence, the touch-down is a long way after the Jet’s touch-down area which is about 1000m before.
It is easy to observe and to use as reference when behind and above on long final.
Can anyone confirm if the vortice still left behind from the big jet can bounce up and by how much?
I learnt to fly from Schiphol so the concept of wake turbulence is nothing new to me – which is why I had already taken the precaution of setting up a higher approach than normal. It had never occurred to me that the vortices would either bounce back up or take so very long to clear. Lelystad is a non-towered airport ( for the time being ) so it is up to the pilot to arrange his own separation. I do feel though that the FISOs should perhaps err on the side of caution and warn pilots – particularly if it is a big b*gger like the Sovereign X so on Monday I will have a word with the Ops Manager.
@Jan_Olieslagers – medical problem solved on a technicality – now flying on LAPL privileges for the time being but the last word on that matter has not been spoken.
Hi Peter,
Of course, it’s the pilot that needs to space correctly behing landing traffic. ATC will only be able to pass on advisories, they won’t do more in this situation.
If have quickly checked runway length of Lelystadt and it is 1250 m.
The jet would need to touch down as early as possible.
But given the runway length it does suggest a single engine aircraft would have to touch down say at half length.
However, I would think the jet would have used the whole length to slow down and I would think it would have turned off at the end?
In such a scenario it would be very different from say Schiphol which has a lot longer runway.
In this particular case I feel the pilot following would have to allow much more time, due to runway length and jet traffic.
Just wondering and looking to hear other pilot’s experiences.
I wouldn’t give too much time to worrying about a bounce etc. Just allow time for dissipation.
@complex-pilot – I absolutely agree, it is the pilot who is responsible for the decision making. I should have been a bit more conservative in my judgement. I had always understood that wake vortices are only possible if the aircraft wing is producing lift therefore once landed there hould be no lift and so no vortices. Yes, the jet landed on the numbers and exited the runway at the very end.
One thing is for sure, I will not allow myself to get in this situation again. It was not an experience I would care to repeat.
Peter_Mundy wrote:
I had always understood that wake vortices are only possible if the aircraft wing is producing lift therefore once landed there hould be no lift and so no vortices.
Wings produce lift on the ground. How do you think you takeoff?
