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NDB Continuation - an abuse of power?

Quote
You cannot guard against high grade military jamming, where the position is simply shifted along.

Apparently, thats exactly the plan.

Last Edited by GA_Pete at 22 Jan 21:08
United Kingdom

You cannot guard against high grade military jamming, where the position is simply shifted along.

Ground based jamming, such as this possible case is different, and a proper rooftop antenna, on a metal roof, should offer a lot of protection, which a GPS in say a tablet or a phone (in the cockpit) won’t benefit from. I run my Samsung tablet from an old Emtac bluetooth GPS which is fed from a rooftop antenna, and this has been 100% reliable over the years. However almost nobody does this, not least because there is AFAIK currently no bluetooth GPS on the market with an external antenna input socket.

On the main topic I am sure this is just European CAA traditionalism, with some anti US politics thrown in. It’s funny – on the “threads possibly related” below you see this one

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

There are some very clever people working on anti-jamming systems as we speak. It won’t be likely to ever reach GA though.

United Kingdom

It has been said that the US was worried about Galileo being used by enemies, and they wouldn’t be able to jam it without jamming GPS along (and shooting themselves in the foot). They explained to the EU officials that (in war) they would shoot down Galileo satellites to keep their advantage of using GPS, but denying it to their enemies. Apparently, that’s reason why Galileo was changed to a different frequency, so that it can be jammed without affecting GPS.

Anyway, the main enemies of the US have their own GNSS system now…

ELLX

If we’re at the point the US has asked the EU to turn off the civilian Galileo signal, civilian air navigation won’t be any concern because whatever is causing the situation is likely to cause us to all be grounded, too – because the only situation that will bring something like that about would be a world war.

Andreas IOM

Yes of course; there is a “secret” agreement that Brussels will shut down Galileo on request from the US, if something bad enough pops up.

The unencrypted signals, anyway.

The IAPs which contain an NDB in the missed approach are all (?) in the UK and are non terrain problematic and the missed part could be flown on a heading. But, no, they are forcing the carriage of an ADF to legally fly any such IAPs. Most GA ADFs are crap and are only just hanging in there, with owners wanting a long term working box buying stuff off US Ebay and transferring the serial number stickers and in the meantime nobody uses them anyway.

I’ve been quite lucky with my KR87 still working after 18 years, but I do have a spare box on the shelf; bought with the antenna from a guy in the US who installed a G500, lost his medical and died… I got that stuff with an 8130-3, which for an N-reg is not required anyway, and would be no good for a G-reg unless reprocessed by some EASA 145 outfit.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

A much more likely one is that President Reagan is going to start WW3 and turn off GPS

Don’t you think the USA would block the Galileo signals at the same time. But still I suppose our wonderful EU politicos must believe in their omnipotence in all things!

UK, United Kingdom

The explanation I’ve been given is that in Europe different (e.g. NDB and DME) beacons with the same ID may not be co-located. So the database may have two entries with the same ID and close to each other. If you pick the wrong one you will be in a heap of trouble. That is apparently not the case in the US.

That might be a face saving explanation. A much more likely one is that President Reagan is going to start WW3 and turn off GPS

That is after all why the EU did Galileo, which is one of its bigger white elephants, since AFAIK no equipment makes any use of it (while specifically not working with the US system), and the grandiose plans for making billions from selling encryption keys were trashed by the realisation that good old American GPS is actually good enough for practically the entire customer space

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

onfinal wrote:

Looks like it’ll be worth holding on to that ADF and keeping those skills honed.

https://www.faasafety.gov/files/notices/2020/Jan/CSG4_20-01_GPS_Flight_Advisory.pdf local copy

Anything that happens in the US, we usually catch after a short while. Just like the weather.

Is it mentionned on some sources like augur?

LFMD, France

Bathman wrote:

Out of interest whey hasn’t easa allowed GPS substitution for NDB approaches? Am I correct in thinking that the FAA did this some decades ago?

The explanation I’ve been given is that in Europe different (e.g. NDB and DME) beacons with the same ID may not be co-located. So the database may have two entries with the same ID and close to each other. If you pick the wrong one you will be in a heap of trouble. That is apparently not the case in the US.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden
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