mdoerr wrote:
Why? Not everyone can speak English.
Well, but everyone piloting an airplane is required to learn a lot of often borderline useless stuff, so why not make English a requirement for anyone operating an airplane in Europe and dump some of the other stuff nobody ever needs after the theoretical exam?
Almost all literature, technical manuals, POH’s, aviation web sites, e.t.c are in English. Most people DO speak English, so why should the have to accomodate a small bunch of people who find it beyond their capability to learn the one language which will allow almost unrestricted access to all this material and aviation in 75% of the world where GA? Quality should always orient itself upwards, not downwards.
Personally I find the babylonian ATC confusion the worst part of the whole mid air problematic. One language for ATC communication would be a MAJOR step forward.
This is of course provocative but why don’t you speak German when flying to Germany ? The language of Europe’s predominant economy and culture, politically and economically more relevant than any European country where the natives speak English (especially now that the UK makes itself irrelevant via Brexit). Spoken by over 100 million native speakers in Europe over several countries. Linguistically closely related to all Germanic languages such as Dutch or English.
We had this language discussion before, recently, and forcing English down every pilot’s throat doesn’t go down well everywhere (least of all in France). I also hazard a guess that it wouldn’t change a thing about the situation at hand. We don’t know if the other pilot even spoke German himself.
This is an international event…
Mooney_Driver wrote:
Most people DO speak English
I think that varies a lot by country and age.
If we start stopping people from flying because they can’t speak English, then a lot of GA would stop unfortunately.
If Chinese was selected as the language of ATC, there would probably be very call for making it compulsory in Europe!
MedEwok wrote:
This is of course provocative but why don’t you speak German when flying to Germany ?
Because i also fly to Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Hungary, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, to name just those where i do not speak the language.
Bumbling along in a rental to the nearest cafe cum airfield may look different, but flying has Europe brought closer to me. I do not want the language obligation taking it away again.
(Was actually looking for the “sarkasm off”…)
Maybe we should learn these ?
Or revert to english, after all ?
Sorry guys I thought the intro "being provocative " made it clear that this was meant as food for thought rather than being dead serious. I generally agree with Dublinpilot above though.
Back to the case at hand, I don’t think the language alone was decisive nor do I think the event was especially noteworthy.
MedEwok wrote:
This is of course provocative but why don’t you speak German when flying to Germany ?
German is my mothertongue and I could, but would need a German RTF license to do so legally or at least so I understand. Now German may well be a prominent language, even if it is not amoungst the most popular, but it is not an ICAO language to start with. I avoid airports where english is not standard on RT and I will not fly to airports where it is banned. In Germany, it is not a problem for me usually as I understand what is being said obviously, but I would flatly refuse flying into places where I do not speak the language and am forced to use cue cards or whatever to get by.
MedEwok wrote:
We had this language discussion before, recently, and forcing English down every pilot’s throat doesn’t go down well everywhere (least of all in France). I also hazard a guess that it wouldn’t change a thing about the situation at hand. We don’t know if the other pilot even spoke German himself.
ATC world wide is spoken in English. Those who can not speak it are basically limited to fly within the borders of their own country. While that may be enough for them but then they should simply stick to their little grass field and stay out of airspace where people who take flying seriously are.
The most spoken languages are one statistic but the most spread languages (where it is either spoken or being learnt as a first or second compulsory language) would show a different picture. There is not many places in Europe you can’t get around by talking English, but you don’t get very far with most other languages. It is by far the most widespread COMMON language which most of the people in European countries learn in school.
dublinpilot wrote:
If we start stopping people from flying because they can’t speak English, then a lot of GA would stop unfortunately
That argument keeps popping up whenever someone wants to protect his little garden.
- Transponders will stop GA because they are too expensive and too bla bla bla…. → Yea well, O N E collision of an airliner with a non-transponder equipped (or disabled) glider or GA plane will do a LOT more than just stop some folks who are too lazy to learn a language!
- English will stop GA and hurt the feelings of the French…. → Well, if there ever has been any positive proof why this charade called the EU will never work, the language issue is the first one quickly followed by the common currency. But that is politics, so let’s not go there. Personally, if there was a mandate for English, some people would have to take their fingers out of where the sun don’t shine and get it done or then, tough, stop. If I am not willing to make my doctorate, I can not practice medicine. If I am not willing to learn about biology, I can’t be a gardener. If I am not willing to learn what it takes to take part in aviation, then I can not be a pilot.
What is so bloody difficult about that?
This may be confusing but I do actually agree that everyone with a PPL or any AFISO should have a basic (level 4) ELP. I don’t agree that English should be mandatory for any R/T but it generally makes sense to use it once non-locals are involved.
The next question is: would it have made a difference here? If Dimme posted the German R/T he recorded we may or may not get further clues, but from an air law point of view the other pilot had every right to be where he was and go NORDO if he pleased. It might be bad airmanship, but in airspace E/G you have no obligation to maintain radio contact (and to whom anyways? He might have been on FIS which Dimme couldn’t hear because he was already talking to Konstanz info).
