Same as in Europe. The TBO is a requirement for commercial operators including flight schools but optional for private operators.
Commander wrote:
An io360 overhaul should be around 13.000 -15.000 euro.
Would you please tell me where I get a quality overhaul for a Lyco IO-360 (in Europe) for 13 to 15 grand ?
AJ wrote:
Would you please tell me where I get a quality overhaul for a Lyco IO-360 (in Europe) for 13 to 15 grand ?
Having in mind that this post was 5 years old, probably nowhere.
Yes I agree; not for 15k€.
In 2017 I paid 35k USD + VAT for an IO540-C4D5D overhaul exchange (Barrett Precision, Oklahoma) and an overhaul would have been the same (but would have grounded me for 12+ weeks).
But you may not need an overhaul. There are some funny, not to say disingenuous, arguments, in the old posts above. This stuff can’t be addressed with one-liners. In most private flying scenarios you can run “on condition” way past 2k hrs. The detail various according to CAA attitude, across Europe, and is different on an N-reg. And usually you cannot do a registry transfer if over the “manufacturer TBO”.
You can get a rebuild (IRAN – inspect and repair as necessary) done for much less.
At the bottom end is a shock load inspection, where they pull the cylinders, leaving the pistons mostly inside so the rings are not touched (they extract the piston pins, obviously). The engine is then opened and everything is NDTd and measured. The engine cannot be legally reassembled if anything is outside “service limits” or (in general) if there is corrosion (!). I once had a shock load done (2002) for about £6k.
A “top overhaul” (replacing cylinders with new) is perhaps 10k.
For a 4 cylinder engine it will be a bit less.
Peter wrote:
You can get a rebuild (IRAN – inspect and repair as necessary) done for much less
It’s an interesting point for me. My engine runs very well, has only about 1100 hrs total time but has never been apart since 1971. I’ve thought about getting it overhauled based on calendar time but it might be better to just pull it apart and inspect it… maybe a new cam and lifters might be needed, overhaul the cylinders (using the A&P supervised air boat shop that does a great, highly automated job at low cost 
) and then fly it with confidence to my ‘sell by’ date… either mine personally or the plane’s. I’m not sure my confidence in the engine would be any higher with more invasive work done instead.
On the other hand, the only real difference between an overhaul (as defined by regulation) and and a free form IRAN is that for the overhaul the inspection is done by the book, with certain measurements being mandatory. There is no requirement at overhaul to replace anything that’s found within service limits, unless specifically dictated by the overhaul documentation. So depending on condition it is not necessarily a lot more expensive to get an overhaul logbook entry and with it perhaps a slightly higher resale value.
Yes; AFAIK on an N-reg there is no special requirement under Part 91, post TBO/2k hrs. No special monitoring e.g. extra compression checks.
But you can’t GO to N-reg if over 2k hrs, AFAIK. I don’t know if this is current, and it could be due to problems with the Export CofA i.e. not the FAA end.
An “overhaul” is a manufacturer-mandatory list of stuff e.g. new cylinders.
Accordingly I don’t think, on N-reg, Part 91, an “overhaul” means anything whatsoever, legally. It may be a wise precaution, but that’s a different argument.
Zero-hour is a different thing again. I recall a thread recently where I asked some shops about it. US shops normally don’t issue zero hour logbooks. My overhauled engine (the ex IAF one, with Hebrew logbooks ) was not zeroed. Maybe they could if the engine was built from a bucket of parts, which any engine shop can do so long as they have a S/N nameplate, because the resulting engine has no history “as an engine” (Lyco sell these as “remanufactured” engines). If some buyer of my plane is bothered about that, he can “go stick” (as one African dictator used to say ).
Peter wrote:
An “overhaul” is a manufacturer-mandatory list of stuff e.g. new cylinders.
Manufacturers do specify some mandatory replacement components at overhaul, regardless of condition, and those items are also mandatory by regulation. However mandatory replacement components are more the exception than the rule, overhaul is not a process of swapping parts per OEM dictate, and new cylinders are not typically mandatory at overhaul. Cylinder inspection and rework as required at overhaul was the norm until about 20 years ago. Running a cylinder overhaul shop used to be a good (i.e. lucrative) business but new cylinders are chosen by many people today – not for regulatory compliance but mainly because they are now so cheap.
I think somebody who owns and flies their own small plane may be well advised to pause and at least think outside the box in terms of engine service, regulations allowing, before replacing everything that moves. It depends a lot on the engine type and annual hours. At 50-100 hours per year many engine components may have lots of time left on them if the engine is overhauled at say 20 years from new. This also highlights the value of recording exactly what was done to the engine at overhaul, in detail, for future reference in say another 20 years.
Peter wrote:
Accordingly I don’t think, on N-reg, Part 91, an “overhaul” means anything whatsoever, legally.
It doesn’t mean anything legally in the sense you intended – there is no difference as a function of engine hours in relation to TBO in the way the plane is operated or maintained under Part 91. Also, if he were so inclined an A&P/owner can disassemble his engine every winter, replace anything that he doesn’t like and put it back together until next year without ever overhauling it for his entire lifetime and 10,000 hrs.
If the engine is overhauled, by FAA regulation it means disassembly and inspection per the manufacturer documentation, replacing anything specified as mandatory in the overhaul manual or applicable service bulletins, measuring everything else, and not returning anything to service that is (unsurprisingly) outside service limits. It does not mean mandatorily returning the engine to as-new condition, which is in any case a bit of a fantasy for an overhaul when you consider fatigue issues that cannot be measured by normal shop practice.
My understanding is that only the original manufacturer can ‘remanufacture’ an engine and bring it to zero time. That involves issuing a new data plate, as well as a new logbook.
Current UK prices for IO360 are £10-11k for shockload and £22-24k for OH from 3 quotes.
AJ wrote:
Would you please tell me where I get a quality overhaul for a Lyco IO-360 (in Europe) for 13 to 15 grand ?
Two years ago, we had a quality overhaul of a Lyco IO-360 in the UK for a quoted price of about £22.000 incl. VAT. In the end it was slightly higher due to additional parts needing replacement, but not much.
Peter wrote:
In most private flying scenarios you can run “on condition” way past 2k hrs. The detail various according to CAA attitude, across Europe, and is different on an N-reg.
We ran the engine to 3400 hours on a self-declared maintenance programme. The local NAA has no say in that case. On an approved AMP the Swedish CAA would not have allowed more than 2400 if the aircraft was used for training.
Quote for an O-200 Overhaul by what many would say it the UK best shop was 31K including VAT and that was with a reground crank. We went with a factory rebuit that run us 29.4K and that was 5 months ago.
Not one of my last 5 Lyco or conti’s have made TBO. Two of them and that includes a factory rebuilt have barely made 1/2 the TBO. And 4 out of that 5 needed cylinder head work/replacement cylinders.
