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How to get noise certificate for my amateur-built Jodel?

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My amateur-built Jodel is on the F-PXXX (French CNRA) register.

Do I need a noise certificate for flights in Germany, France, Spain, Croatia, Italy, Slovenia, Austria, …? I’ll mostly land on small airfields and aerodromes.

What’s the consequence of not having a noise certificate (other than paying excessive landing fees)?

How can I get one for my plane?

I heard rumors that in France there are 1-2 events where people can come and generate a noise certificate by flying over a microphone. Does anyone have more details?

LFHN, LSGP, LFHM

Yes, it is advisable to have a noise certificate for flying Europe.

No noise certificate means higher landing fees and on occasions denial to land at specific times, i.e. mid-day.
There are certain airfields even not allowing regular landing without noise certificate in any way.
All valid if you get checked of course. It is a risk without.

On which ICAO Annex basis is your Jodel registered?
There are certain constellations in which case there is no way to get a new one.
Yes, if there is no generic noise certificate they measure by microphone on specified fly-overs.
If your aircraft was amateur-built, there will be no generic certificate.
What year was your Jodel built, noise under ICAO Kap.6 procedure?
Did you check carefully and thorough there never was a noise certificate?
As said, certain old ones cannot be done new, but they do keep their validity.
A former owner may have forgotten to hand it over on selling the aircraft?

Last Edited by at 25 Jan 17:01

dejwu wrote:

Yes, it is advisable to have a noise certificate for flying Europe.

A 1979 PA28 owned by my club got its noise certificate revoked last year. Our CAA said that according to ICAO standards it doesn’t have to have a noise certificate and if it doesn’t have to it shouldn’t — they even demanded it back! They did provide us with a paper that said the aircraft didn’t need a noise certificate. And of course we copied the old one before surrendering it…

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

dejwu wrote:

On which ICAO Annex basis is your Jodel registered?

What year was your Jodel built, noise under ICAO Kap.6 procedure?

I think it is an Annex-II aircraft. It is a Jodel D11, built 2001 by a French aeroclub, and since then registered under French “CNRA”, i.e., Fox-Papa registration.

Could you please elaborate on “noise under ICAO Kap.6 procedure”?

dejwu wrote:


Did you check carefully and thorough there never was a noise certificate?
As said, certain old ones cannot be done new, but they do keep their validity.
A former owner may have forgotten to hand it over on selling the aircraft?

I will have another close look at my paperwork and contact the club and former owner. But from own prior experience those things are handled in a very lax way in France, so I would be very surprised if something turns up.

So likely I would have to obtain a noise certificate by measurement. Has anybody ever done this — any recommendations where to go? Would I need to go to a French shop, or could be be a German one etc.?

LFHN, LSGP, LFHM

Zorg wrote:

I think it is an Annex-II aircraft. It is a Jodel D11, built 2001 by a French aeroclub, and since then registered under French “CNRA”

Zorg, there are a lot of Jodels D11 in France or around Europe who should have the same configuration as yours and probably with a noise certificate.
By same configuration, I mean same engine model and HP, same exhaust system and propellor.
CNRA should have on their register the aircrafts which have noise certificate.
If a similar aircraft exist you do not need to do any noise test, they should just issue the certificate on this basis.
I would contact first the CNRA and ask. They can also give you the list of people who do the noise test.

If this does not exist I would contact the German experimental aircraft association (OUV) and look for the same stuff.
If you find one with the exact same configuration you may ask the owner to send you a copy of his noise certificate and show this to CNRA or RSA.
Good luck!

ES?? - Sweden

A 1979 PA28 owned by my club got its noise certificate revoked last year. Our CAA said that according to ICAO standards it doesn’t have to have a noise certificate and if it doesn’t have to it shouldn’t — they even demanded it back! They did provide us with a paper that said the aircraft didn’t need a noise certificate. And of course we copied the old one before surrendering it…

I applied to the UK CAA last August (2018) for a noise certificate as I was planning a trip to Germany and heard that they charge more for landing fees for aircraft without a noise certificate and got the same response. “It is not required so they will not issue one”.

How does one deal with this if the Germans try to charge a higher landing fee for not having a noise certificate?

Here’s the email trail:

Dear MR Evans,
Unfortunately if that’s the case, then we are not able to produce a noise certificate for your aircraft type as it doesn’t need one under an LAA permit to Fly.
Therefore, we will be cancelling your application

Many thanks and kind regards
Vicki Johnson
Shared Service Centre Officer
Aircraft Certification
Civil Aviation Authority
Tel : 0330 022 1908 (08.30am-4.30pm Mon-Fri)
Email : [email protected]

From: Eddie [email removed]
Sent: 16 August 2018 19:14
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: ANC-1683 G-PHYS

Hi,
No I am not reclassifying it as a microlight, but am planning some trips to Germany where some airfields charge extortionate landing fees if you cannot produce a noise certificate.

Kind Regards
George Edward (Eddie) Donald Evans

From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Sent: 16 August 2018 17:51
To: EDDIEHELI[email removed]
Subject: ANC-1683 G-PHYS

Dear Mr Evans,
We have received your application for a Noise Certificate with regards to this aircraft and please can you just clarify that what you want is to re-classify your Aircraft with the LAA to a Microlight so therefore you are applying for a Microlight Noise Certificate as an initial application?

Many thanks and kind regards
Vicki Johnson
Shared Service Centre Officer
Aircraft Certification
Civil Aviation Authority
Tel : 0330 022 1908 (08.30am-4.30pm Mon-Fri)
Email : [email protected]

Last Edited by Eddieheli at 16 Mar 22:20
Wycombe, White Waltham, Fairoaks, United Kingdom

Eddieheli wrote:

How does one deal with this if the Germans try to charge a higher landing fee for not having a noise certificate?

The noise certificate is from a standardized measurement procedure (ICAO as far as I know). EAA in Norway do this measurement for all new and not previously measured homebuilt experimental aircraft. This certificate works just as well in Germany as any other place. Surely the LAA must be able to do the same?

Did you tell the CAA why you need one? Perhaps they will relent if they realise that it is needed in some European countries.

According to the German airports, who needs to have issued the noise certificate? Can it be issued by someone other than the CAA? (e.g. any noise measuring service)?

Andreas IOM

The previous owner of my Europa did a noise survey at a German facility, along with some other Europa fliers, which gave a short table of engine/prop combinations and the noise levels. The Europa Club then issued these certificates for G-Reg Europas, but you needed a copy of the measurement to carry with the cert. The LAA back then were not issuing Noise Certs. I do not know if they are now, I’ve been out of that loop for too long.

Personally, now that I have swapped to the PH-Reg, the Dutch CAA issue a noise certificate and therefore this issue is no longer a problem for me.

The German regulations are quite specific on the dB levels allowable under which chapter the measurement is done. What you might be able to do is get a survey done at a facility, and carry the results with you. I remember the Europas were done at Heubach (EDTH) but this was well over a decade ago. In Germany the test results will give you the measured noise level and compliance against German Regs. Whether that results sheet is accepted by the “person in the tower” I guess depends on what mood they’re in and any local airfield policy.

Whether this is info is helpful to you in your case or not I am not sure, as I am not sure of the Jodel community.

Last Edited by italianjon at 17 Mar 12:35

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