Zorg wrote:
I’d first fly some time with different planes and do some mountain flying training to strengthen my view on what’s really important for me when it comes to flying.
True. And a very valuable advice – I guess there are some people out there who have not made up their mind on their goals. I started out flying gliders in my youth and turned towards flying SEP and TMG in my early twenties. In my thirties I relocated to Switzerland and started exploring the Alps after a while. Now I´m in my early forties and think I have a precise idea of what I want to do, the question is how to get there 
And… now I feel even older…..
Zorg wrote:
finding a hangar spot (or even tie-down) might be your biggest challenge
Oh yes. Finding a spot appears like winning the lottery. There must be a real wait list next to the official wait list………. It is really unbelievable, aside from the rates, which are pretty sporty……. Thinking about a trailerable plane could become a serious thought instead of a fun idea. But beside that I don´t want to drive 1.5h or more to get to my plane. So I also would need to accept the issue with customs. Aside from the fact that they rarely showed up when I have “applied” for customs…
Zorg wrote:
decide what budget is required for what mission
Well, here is the issue, or rather the breaking point. I´m not willing to spend, let´s say, 15k for a hobby. So I´m looking for “cheaper” alternatives. But cheaper in the overall context. So, if microlights could become a valid topic, why not. Or Experimentals. Or “cheap” ELA1-aircraft. Else, I maybe have to accept the higher price tag of ownership versus renting.
BTW, when I speak of microlights, I mean those types who are build the same way when being made as LSA / SEP, such as the Eurofox for instance (source: UK website of the reseller there).
Clearly “we” prefer the one-size-fits-all airplane, which does not exist, so definitely buying an airplane means accepting a compromise. For instance, I´m looking at two-seaters. For the relative rare events of a family trip or if I really need something “faster” (in terms of a Mooney, for instance) I can book a suitable plane with the club close by.
LeSving wrote:
Having flown gliders in my early times
Good. There’s definitely a difference in attitude and culture between people having started early in life
To a certain extend true. Also, a bit off-topic, I´m occasionally surprised when speaking to younger pilots who appear not able to conduct a VFR flight without (multiple) GPS and moving maps…. But maybe that is the result of the technological progress nowadays.
a_kraut wrote:
Regarding 30 min difference for a 300nm flight: a realistic cruise speed for a Kitfox may be 80kts, for a RV7 maybe 140 kts. Thus 300nm require 3:45 vs 2:15 h, which is 90min more.
Sure. I was comparing 100kt (Kitfox with the 912iS, (100hp)), my point was the “life is a marathon, not a sprint”-stuff rather than the exact difference in flight time. But yeah, if in a hurry a Kitfox is rather the wrong choice. And a RV could easily make 170/180kt if I remember correctly….
a_kraut wrote:
Microlight: safe, versatile, shiny, sometimes fast planes. Very good STOL and climb performance. IFR impossible
In which country? Like Experimentals, Microlights are regulated individually by each stake, not EASA. While I read that some countries allow IFR for Experimentals (but requiring a certified engine and certified avionics (?), Microlights are miles away from flying IFR (but I´m happy to get corrected; I´m more familiar with German regulations).
mh wrote:
In GER, we have four times as many accidents per plane (two times as many per pilot) as in certified a/c
The question appears which sub-categories are included when looking at microlight accident statistics. Are these only the “airplane-like” ULs or also all the other stuff like Trikes, etc.? Also, how much of these accidents were because of pilot-mistakes or because of structural / engine-issues?
Again, thank you for your input!
P.S. Several edits to get the formatting correct. This blockquote-stuff reminds me on my earlier HTML-programming times…..
Yes you need a blank line after the closing blockquote, otherwise you get this
I´m occasionally surprised when speaking to younger pilots who appear not able to conduct a VFR flight without (multiple) GPS and moving maps…. But maybe that is the result of the technological progress nowadays.
I am 61 and would not fly without a GPS It is just too risky, too much effort, too much doubt, too much workload, and you get the “book thrown at you” if you bust CAS.
I am 61 and would not fly without a GPS It is just too risky, too much effort, too much doubt, too much workload, and you get the “book thrown at you” if you bust CAS.
Sure. My point was not against the use of GPS in general (I don’t want to miss my Moving Map neither; nowadays one would be ‘stupid’ flying without GPS for the reason you mentioned), it was more a comment on the inability of some pilots to navigate manually. What is their plan B when the device stops working? Pulling CAPS? 
Zorg wrote:
4 new (original Continental) cylinder kits complete with: piston, mounted valves, segments, seal sets, etc. complete old generation at $1589 each: $6356
8 rocker bushings for $15 each: $120
Cutting new segments, mounting on the pistons: $220
Replacement of rocker bushings, adjustment of the clearance: $275
Shipping to airplane shop via UPS: $365
Total: $7336
@Zorg, again new cylinders are well under $4,000 per the link in previous post. French VAT would push that price to $4700 or so. Gapping the rings and installing them on the pistons (I have my handy French-English translator working ) is reasonable at $220. $120 plus $275 to replace and ream rocker bushings is reasonable because the new cylinders do not come with rocker arms. Shipping is reasonable at $365. That gets us to $5680.
Zorg wrote:
I was billed about 23 hours (at about $85) for the disassembly, shipping, and assembly, so another $2’000.
I would expect about two days total labor, 16 hrs at $85/hr (your labor rate) = $1360
The total is then $7040 – which compared to my $6000 guess would roughly account for VAT, which I omitted.
MikeWhiskey wrote:
What is their plan B when the device stops working?
My phone works well for that purpose.
What is their plan B when the device stops working? Pulling CAPS?
Pull out the other GPS. And if GPS gets jammed everywhere, you call up ATC and ask for vectors. That I believe is the official plan for that scenario.
Don’t mean to digress though
The total is then $7040
Europe has VAT, around 20%. But also parts cost more over here, by the time they have been shipped from the US. And the whole engine overhaul business is not that big – the GA scene is not that big – compared to the US, so volumes are smaller.
But the main thing is that the engine fund – for whichever engine – doesn’t dominate the operating costs. They are dominated by fuel and the only way to burn significantly less fuel per mile is to shift less air out of the way when flying Planes which are cheap to fly are the little planes.
Pull out the other GPS. And if GPS gets jammed everywhere, you call up ATC and ask for vectors. That I believe is the official plan for that scenario.
Got it. Maybe I should arrive in the 21st century and stop buying paper maps
Silvaire wrote:
@Zorg, again new cylinders are well under $4,000 per the link in previous post. French VAT would push that price to $4700 or so.
Interesting, thanks for providing your insight @Silvaire.
Peter wrote:
Europe has VAT, around 20%. But also parts cost more over here, by the time they have been shipped from the US. And the whole engine overhaul business is not that big – the GA scene is not that big – compared to the US, so volumes are smaller.
Indeed, becoming curious, I found this:
I guess part of the price difference is, as Peter already alluded to:
Worth noting that Spruce is a retailer which delivers a good service for one-offs and small quantities. From my dealings with US engine shops, they don’t buy parts from Spruce. They have trade accounts with Lycoming, etc. So if a Lyco list price for Part X is $1000 the engine shop buys it for say $750 and just by ordering it they make $250 because it will appear at $1000 on their invoice.
Spruce will buy it for $750 too but they probably resell that part for $1500 For those here in electronics, Spruce is the equivalent of RS Components or Farnell. Nobody uses these for serious production.
Sandelving in Germany (who managed to wangle the aircraftspruce.eu domain ) probably buy the part for $1000 and resell it for $1800 But they have to absorb shipping, which they try to minimise by filling a container once a week, or some such, and using sea freight. They stock very little in Germany, as I well know…
But, still, as I wrote earlier, parts costs don’t dominate flying costs – unless you manage to bugger your engine or even the whole plane quite regularly
To get back to the original topic, you get more or less what you pay for.
And don’t forget you cannot fly uncertified planes freely around Europe. Search on e.g.
homebuilt privileges
to find just one of many long threads. They can fly freely within regions (Norway/Sweden/etc is one, UK/France is another) and often these are big enough to keep the owners quite happy. But I know e.g. that if EuroGA was a purely homebuilders forum, the last place we would do a fly-in at would be Spain…
Based on @Zorg’s cost data I might have considered clicking on a US supplier’s ‘buy it now’ link if I needed cylinders anywhere in the world. Many will ship them to you, including Aircraft Spruce from Atlanta. On commodity items like cylinders US AS prices are not much higher than anybody else, and you do get excellent service. If I order stuff in the US by 2 PM, I typically have it on my home doorstep in 24 hrs.
The US does not have VAT. US states instead have state + local sales tax that varies by specific location of sale from 0% to about 10%. In general it does not apply to parts sales shipped out of state. Neither a European nor US customer would typically be charged sales tax on a set of cylinders, because in either case the retail vendor would (most likely) be shipping to an out-of-US-state location. There is no need for a refund – the tax is never charged.
