Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Flying in Europe and where to base N-Reg experimental in Europe?

Hi all,

Apologies for going over what seems to be a topic discussed in the past but here goes:

I would like to bring across from the USA an experimental Arion Lightning and fly between the UK, France and Spain (maybe other European countries in the future too).

I understand that I can base in Germany for up to 180 days, the Uk for up to 28 days but I am not sure whether I can base in Spain or France or even whether cross border travel is possible for an N-reg experimental.

Do I even need to ‘nominate’ a base or can I just fly say one month to France, then across to Spain, then back to the UK, then back to Spain etc.

Does anyone have any real experience of doing anything similar?

Before anyone asks, I have given up trying to get the Lightning on the LAA register. They are not interested.

EGKA, United Kingdom

If I were you, I would import it either to Norway or Sweden and get it on LN/SE reg. Maybe Portugal/Spain also works fine? Don’t know, but that’s my impression.

Flying a N reg experimental within several countries in Europe on a regular basis, sounds rather tiresome.

ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Hi LeSving, thanks for your reply. Can I ask what makes you say it is rather tiresome?

EGKA, United Kingdom

Welcome to EuroGA, Euroavion

I am not aware of any facility to nominate a “base” for the purpose of these weird rules. They tend to be ambiguous anyway – see this post. It is inherently hard to draw up regulations limiting where a plane is “based” because it is basically a time limit on parking and when it is inside a hangar nobody can see it. Then you have to put in concessions for aircraft grounded for maintenance reasons (Italy got into that with its luxury tax project some years ago). Another discussion on long term parking stuff is here.

Some info on Germany is here.

I think, looking at this the whole non-certified scene is being tightened up. Whether this translates to any actual enforcement I have no idea; there never was any, as far I have heard.

N-reg is just hard almost everywhere in Europe, if you follow the rules strictly.

I don’t think Spain is much good – see here.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Can I ask what makes you say it is rather tiresome?

N-reg experimental requires separate entry/overflight approval for many countries.

EASA reg experimental is quite liberal in that regard thanks to the ECAC treaty. SE or LN would be good (ifr experimental possible).

Indiv. CBIR Instruction
LOWG, LEBL

I think you can get one year at a time in Ireland, an RV10 that was here springs to mind.

U206F, J3 Sea, PA32R & others
EIBR

I think the reality is that you can get “years” anywhere, if you have a hangar. Nobody will bother you.

The issues are

  • how to keep a low profile when it is out of the hangar
  • how to fly internationally with it

I’d say you definitely do NOT want Mode S on it because the whole world will know… Large sections of the homebuilt community in certain countries fly non-txp or Mode C.

This was done to death in the other threads we have had on this topic over the years. One cannot avoid concluding that the N-reg homebuilts/experimentals which fly around Europe long-term are in the following categories

  • ones that almost never come out of the hangar
  • ones owned by very high net worth individuals (so a fine is a complete non issue)
  • ones that fly in parts of Europe where nobody is going to care

and some well known ones are firmly in the last two

What does the domestic reg for Ireland say?

I have not seen any reports of insurance being affected by non compliance, but then one wouldn’t know if somebody had a problem. Personally, I would not want to be illegal.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Euroavion wrote:

Hi LeSving, thanks for your reply. Can I ask what makes you say it is rather tiresome?

What Snoopy said. With LN-reg your plane will, for all practical purposes, become like a Annex I ICAO “approved” plane. It can be maintained the same way. More importantly, it can be maintained everywhere the same way, by any approved/licensed mechanic/organisation, or yourself if you have built it. I think this is the same also for Spain/Portugal, as well as some other countries. No problem with IFR either, if that’s a thing for you.

There are several, rather unrelated things to consider. You have to maintain it, you have to keep it at some place, consideration with operation (how are you going to use it). Experimental/homebuilts are governed by national laws. EU/EASA has nothing to do with it. Consider EU/EASA non-existing, but ECAC (pre-cursor to EASA in some sense) is still in place, and do have influence in how these aircraft are operated in greater Europe (more wide reaching than EASA).

These things are changing all the time also.

ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

With LN-reg your plane will, for all practical purposes, become like a Annex I ICAO “approved” plane. It can be maintained the same way. More importantly, it can be maintained everywhere the same way, by any approved/licensed mechanic/organisation, or yourself if you have built it. I think this is the same also for Spain/Portugal, as well as some other countries. No problem with IFR either, if that’s a thing for you.

With lots of caveats…

Spain, as mentioned above, limits you to 6 months. France and UK 28 days.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Snoopy wrote:

N-reg experimental requires separate entry/overflight approval for many countries.

According to the typical operating limitations, N-reg experimentals requires entry/overflight approval for all countries.

Based on my real life experience (I own an N-reg Europa), it is never an issue to receive this permit for a limited period in EU countries. Long term parking and operations really depends on the country. According to my experience, you can get 1 year for the following countries without issues: Germany, Switzerland, Belgium, Poland, Ukraine and many others. Indeed, UK and France are limiting you to 28 days.

Ukraine
11 Posts
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top