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Relaxation of Non-Certified Commercial Ops in EASA?

In-flight (LOC-I vs LOC-G ground)

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Airborne_Again wrote:

I would guess that’s the case with certified light GA as well.

Not necessarily. Certified light GA is at least 50% strictly regulated commercial flight school stuff. Accidents occur also at flight schools, but tends to be of the “odd” kind. ULM, as well as other non certified planes, is much more (close to 100%) “grass root” with individuals flying their own planes, mostly from small uncontrolled runways. Also, non certified planes have quirks making them a bit more difficult to fly. Most of them are very different from the Cessna Land-o-matic behavior. ULMs also have, by design and regulation, much lower wing loading, which makes them difficult to land in even moderate gusty conditions.

I remember Burt had a video on the accidents of LSA in the US. US LSA is the equivalent to modern European ULMs. Most accident were caused by relatively seasoned PPL pilots who flew their new LSA for the first times. Low wing loading, approaching too fast (Cessna speed), pushing the plane down on the runway at 2x the stall speed, and there you have it.

In Europe the whole ULM scene have been very unregulated, perhaps too much so with today’s high tech and complex planes. At least that’s the case according to aviation authorities, and IMHO there is some truth in it. (Landing) accidents in Europe occurs because people do stupid stuff too often, while the same accidents occurs in the US because people don’t know how to fly a plane with light wing loading.

Ibra wrote:

One thing about ULM BRS, we don’t know how reliable they are?

The thing with ULM BRS is not their reliability, but how to handle a crashed plane where the BRS has not been fired. In a wrecked and distorted plane, the BRS can accidentally be pulled by the first people there.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

“Non-certified” is a national thing and therefore regulation can (and does) substantially differ between different countries.

In Germany commercial ops with ultralights are not forbidden so one could do them. It might be a gray area but until now it is ok. I doubt, however, that there is a huge market for that: Weight limitations are significant, speed is limited and not many non-aviation people really enjoy 3 hrs. of low level flying in bumpy conditions …

Germany

In Germany commercial ops with ultralights are not forbidden so one could do them

I find that incredibly hard to believe.

Certified light GA is at least 50% strictly regulated commercial flight school stuff.

Maybe in Norway And other countries with very low levels of GA activity.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Only local clubs teaching on UL in Norway. For «normal» aircraft a few large ATOs, but they only offer integrated training (with a large percentage of foreign students).

And no commercial activities with UL. Strictly forbidden. You can just barely bring a passenger :)

Last Edited by ErlendV at 14 Apr 14:39
FI, ATPL TKI and aviation writer
ENKJ, ENRK, Norway

Peter wrote:

I find that incredibly hard to believe.

Legally in Germany a UL is not an airplane but “air sports equipment”. Commercial passenger transport in that is legally the same as if you offer commercial tandem flights with a paraglider. Obviously the regulator believes it is not big enough to take care.

Germany

A new VL3 (admittedly: 270k) gets beyond the weight limit and speed restriction. It also climbs to FL95 (on top on most days) in 5 minutes.

I can see it very tempting for someone (possibly with an IR qualification) to offer some sort of air taxi service in one.

That’s what the guy above did but he got shot down by the „internet police“, possibly.

The other problem is that one needs permits (sometimes expensive) in half of Europe nowadays.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 14 Apr 14:59
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

boscomantico wrote:

I can see it very tempting for someone (possibly with an IR qualification) to offer some sort of air taxi service in one.

I don’t see how an IR qualification would contribute except for increasing the temptation to do illegal flights. VFR only commercial air transport is quite difficult in Germany due to the large extend of class Echo airspace and the required cloud clearances that come with it.
Yes one can always argue “who cares about cloud clearance”, but if someone does not want to stay legal they can just offer CAT in any SEP with a PPL …

Rumors say that many of the UL operations that started and got shut down actually had to realize that their insurance does not cover commercial air transport – and flying paying passengers w/o proper insurance is of course a completely different thing from just “missing a required slip of paper”.

Germany

Peter wrote:

And other countries with very low levels of GA activity.

Norway has equal or more GA activity per capita than UK. But we are only 5.5 millions, and spread out. Certified aviation (EASA style) only really works in well regulated and high density populated areas like Germany. For me to have a Cirrus for instance, I would be what, 1000+ NM away from the nearest shop. The only way to go is non certified, for most people at least (meaning unless you can afford a B-200 or some fancy turbine helicopter or similar. Then the mountain comes to Mohammed, and not the other way around )

ErlendV wrote:

And no commercial activities with UL. Strictly forbidden. You can just barely bring a passenger

From July 2021 operations became according to Part-NCO (for better or worse), so pretty much the same as certified aircraft. The thing is that the aircraft itself cannot be used in commercial operations according to the law. This is the same as experimental aircraft. For experimental aircraft there are certain “loopholes”, like “historic flights” etc, but these operations requires higher maintenance regimes and an AOC as well I believe.

Flight sharing rules are exactly the same, and the same goes for sailplane towing. There must not be a considerable profit, is the general rule. Anyway, flights like the one in the OP seems to be way over the line IMO, although not 100% sure. It seems to me it is possible to arrange stuff so the whole venture is non profit, or perhaps not?

I am of the opinion nonetheless that ULs and experimentals are exclusively for private and personal enjoyment and education. We have certified aircraft for commercial stuff, as well as drones.

Last Edited by LeSving at 15 Apr 11:13
The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

1000 pilots in Norway mentioned here.

ULs and experimentals are exclusively for private and personal enjoyment and education. We have certified aircraft for commercial stuff, as well as drones.

Strongly disagree One needs certified aircraft to fly around Europe without hindrance.

I would expect there to be some overriding regulation prohibiting this.

Funny thing is that @italianjon has not been back…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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