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Homebuilt / ultralight / permit (non ICAO CofA) and IFR - how?

Peter wrote:

A search with e.g. this

ifr AND homebuilt

(uppercase AND) digs out various threads.

Thx! Did not search for “homebuilt”. As a non-native speaker I was not accustomed to that term

EDNG, EDST, Germany

Peter wrote:

To do it legally, you need a convergence of

the airspace allowing non-CofA IFR (most don’t)
the aircraft permit not having a VFR restriction (typically, European ones have it, N-regs don’t have it)
the aircraft is not banned from operating in the country in question (usually you can fly through, may need a permit, ma be limited to 28 days’ stay, etc)
It is basically useless.

I guess there is no list about those matters, right?

Does anyone know how that works in German airspace?

EDNG, EDST, Germany

I am certain you could legally fly an IFR-capable homebuilt if the responsable CAA (Sweden, Lux, Island?) allows this. As I understand it, it is not the airframe which needs to be certified for IFR, but the instrumentation and installation. The installation will then be accepted/allowed by the responsible CAA. Condition for this acceptance/allowance is a certified airframe in most of the European countries, but not in the aforementioned ones.

Bremen (EDWQ), Germany

UK IFR is possible in an LAA Permit aircraft, but not automatically outside UK Airspace, if at all.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

You can except that each airframe has to be individually approved, there are just 2 guys in the LAA doing it, both have full time jobs elsewhere, and people who applied a year ago have still not got it. I am told that the court case arising from this has consumed a lot of LAA resources.

I vaguely recall that, for those who got it, France is ok but not Germany.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

a_kraut wrote:

As I understand it, it is not the airframe which needs to be certified for IFR, but the instrumentation and installation.

For certified aircraft, definitely the airframe needs to be certified for IFR! One requirement is that it must survive a lightning strike. This means that e.g. composite material designs need to have lightning protection designed in from the beginning (typically using a conductive metal mesh) otherwise they can never be certified for IFR.

For UL, I don’t know.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Airborne_Again wrote:

For certified aircraft, definitely the airframe needs to be certified for IFR!

I think the situation is much less definitive. The concept of IFR certification standards didn’t exist at the time most of the current fleet was (FAA) certified and accordingly the concept does not exist in the TC for those planes, or derivative documents. That doesn’t stop you from flying for example a (metal) Cessna 152, (tube and wood) Bellanca Viking or (tube and rag) Piper Tripacer under IFR – many of them have been, are, and will be forever. For more recent types, and it seems to me based on experience more so for older European (e.g. older LBA certified German) types, there may be a TC operating limitation or mandatory placard that addresses flight conditions. How specifically that is related to changing certification standards, somebody else will have to answer…

Last Edited by Silvaire at 04 Nov 22:11

Silvaire wrote:

The concept of IFR certification standards didn’t exist at the time most of the current fleet was (FAA) certified and accordingly the concept does not exist in the TC for those planes, or derivative documents.

Certainly, but the question was not about older aircraft but what is required for IFR approval of an aircraft today — specifically UL.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

I am sure this was posted here previously but this outlines the UK LAA procedures for what are basically homebuilts.

Other countries will have their own versions but finding these docs is really hard. All one tends to find is some advert on planecheck – example – which claims “IFR approved” but one never finds out how this was done, and some of them appear to be bogus claims.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

At first glimpse, this document is a very sympathetic pragmatic expression of common sense. There is certainly no such thing in Germany …
A pity they require a certified engine. Most Rotax 912 in experimentals are of the non-certified breed.

Bremen (EDWQ), Germany
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