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Homebuilt / ultralight / permit (non ICAO CofA) and IFR - how?

Supersonic wrote:

Regarding the entry of foreign aircraft the German AIP (GEN 1.2 III.1 – Permission of entry for aircraft with restricted certification) says:

Permission is not required for aircraft registered in the European Economic Area with a Permit to Fly with the exact wording: “This Permit to Fly is issued pursuant to Regulation (EC) 216/2008, Article 5 (4) (a) and certifies that the aircraft is capable of safe flight for the purpose and within the conditions listed below and is valid in all Member States.”

No mentioning of VFR only…

My interpretation would be that if you have an e.g. UK or Swedish registered homebuild with IFR permission stated in its PtF, you could legally fly under IFR within German airspace.

Please correct me, if I am wrong…

Hate to do it, but you are entirely wrong. (EC) 216/2008, Article 5 (4) has noting to do with Annex II aircraft (now Annex I). The article is not about homebuilt (experimental) aircraft. It’s about EASA permit to fly or EASA restricted CofA (whatever that is).

LeSving wrote:

Hate to do it, but you are entirely wrong. (EC) 216/2008, Article 5 (4) has noting to do with Annex II aircraft (now Annex I). The article is not about homebuilt (experimental) aircraft. It’s about EASA permit to fly or EASA restricted CofA (whatever that is).

Well, that’s fine! Learning something new everyday ;-)

However, my point is, that in the whole paragraph there is no mentioning of VFR restrictions for aircraft on a PtF.

EDNG, EDST, Germany

Supersonic wrote:

Permission is not required for aircraft registered in the European Economic Area with a Permit to Fly with the exact wording: “This Permit to Fly is issued pursuant to Regulation (EC) 216/2008, Article 5 (4) (a) and certifies that the aircraft is capable of safe flight for the purpose and within the conditions listed below and is valid in all Member States.”

So is written in my CTLS Permit to Fly
Then for my plane in the Flight Conditions Flight Design specifically states daytime and VMC .
Not sure if I could , with avionic and license , to fly IFR in daytime an VMC

Pegaso airstrip, Italy

All aircraft that don’t have a conventional ICAO CofA are restricted in European border crossings, and often long term parking in a country other than their country of registry, and most cannot fly IFR either due to their Permit or due to the airspace. The exact classification doesn’t change the overall picture much.

As stated previously, most owners are happy with it because it meets their requirements, and in a few places (e.g. the UK with its medical self declaration) there are key benefits. However quite a lot of people found out about the restrictions only after they spent say 100k.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

So
" This permit to fly….is valid in all member states "
What should mean ??
I’m speaking of EASA PtF of course.

Pegaso airstrip, Italy

ormazad wrote:

EASA PtF of course

The difference between NAA PtF and EASA PtF is the flight condition/testing setup, the latter is merely useful for exporting or selling new aircraft designs between states, it just make getting PtF easier…

I think you still need to check with the other states NAA before flying, this applies whenever PtF is involved and will not cost you more than an email (or just do it without as someone told me, he still refers to the Super Cub as Group A aircraft)

Last Edited by Ibra at 20 Nov 13:47
ESSEX, United Kingdom

Ibra wrote:

he still refers to the Super Cub as Group A aircraft

Are any Super Cubs still EASA Aircraft? Piper still exists.
Some old aircraft exist in both forms – EASA and Annex1 – depending on their history.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

That one is non-EASA on PtF, it is Annex II which is called Annex I now days…

Maoraigh wrote:

Some old aircraft exist in both forms – EASA and Annex1 – depending on their history.

It can as production continues after 1975 cut-off date (tough the bulk of prod happened before)

I don’t think they are any PA18s that still on EASA CoFA, at least not on GINFO database, for sure if you like to call it L4 it will be on PtF

ESSEX, United Kingdom

Bolkow BO208 Junior in the UK are some EASA, some LAA Permit.
For historical reasons. (I think??)

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

This post is relevant to IFR in homebuilts in Germany.

I wonder if anyone could summarise that German doc?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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