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Homebuilt / ultralight / permit (non ICAO CofA) and IFR - how?

It is a good approach, except IMHO the bit about lightning being an insignificant risk. It is hardly that… but one can see they don’t want to open that can of worms because only metal homebuilts (e.g. RVs) would qualify; the rest would require virtually impossible reconstruction and bonding. That would have made this IFR process a highly divisive proposition within the homebuilding community.

Even on certified aircraft, there have been plenty of reports about “plastic planes” (Cirruses and Diamonds, basically) getting static buildups which crashed the avionics. These go back years so perhaps the issues have been solved since. But you can’t begin to solve it unless you have metal mesh, or presumably carbon fibre dense enough to continuously conduct, embedded in the composite.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Jodel DR1050 aircraft were certified, and some were flown IFR, before EASA dumped them as “Orphans” in Annex 2. (Now renamed Annex 1)
I don’t think they had lightning protection. I’ve seen wings without the fabric.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

Other countries will have their own versions but finding these docs is really hard.

Not really, an email to the local experimental/homebuilt association will do. But it is always (IME) written in the native language, so you will not find anything in English, making it hard/impossible to use the web the usual way, for an English speaker at least.

For instance, in Norway the regulations are easy to find at the first or second logical place to look. You don’t even have to search. But, I bet no English (only) speaker will be able to find anything

This situation is not likely to change, since these are local regulations.

ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Maoraigh wrote:

UK IFR is possible in an LAA Permit aircraft, but not automatically outside UK Airspace, if at all.

Regarding the entry of foreign aircraft the German AIP (GEN 1.2 III.1 – Permission of entry for aircraft with restricted certification) says:

Permission is not required for aircraft registered in the European Economic Area with a Permit to Fly with the exact wording: “This Permit to Fly is issued pursuant to Regulation (EC) 216/2008, Article 5 (4) (a) and certifies that the aircraft is capable of safe flight for the purpose and within the conditions listed below and is valid in all Member States.”

No mentioning of VFR only…

My interpretation would be that if you have an e.g. UK or Swedish registered homebuild with IFR permission stated in its PtF, you could legally fly under IFR within German airspace.

Please correct me, if I am wrong…

EDNG, EDST, Germany

Thanks Supersonic, my UK LAA cleared for IFR permit says:
‘Pursuant to the Article 41(4) of the Air Navigation Order 2016 of the United Kingdom and CAP 553 BCAR section A Chapter A3-7’
I will now look up this reference.

Norman
United Kingdom

Supersonic wrote:

Regarding the entry of foreign aircraft the German AIP (GEN 1.2 III.1 – Permission of entry for aircraft with restricted certification) says:

Permission is not required for aircraft registered in the European Economic Area with a Permit to Fly with the exact wording: “This Permit to Fly is issued pursuant to Regulation (EC) 216/2008, Article 5 (4) (a) and certifies that the aircraft is capable of safe flight for the purpose and within the conditions listed below and is valid in all Member States.”

No mentioning of VFR only…

My interpretation would be that if you have an e.g. UK or Swedish registered homebuild with IFR permission stated in its PtF, you could legally fly under IFR within German airspace.

Please correct me, if I am wrong…

Hate to do it, but you are entirely wrong. (EC) 216/2008, Article 5 (4) has noting to do with Annex II aircraft (now Annex I). The article is not about homebuilt (experimental) aircraft. It’s about EASA permit to fly or EASA restricted CofA (whatever that is).

ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

LeSving wrote:

Hate to do it, but you are entirely wrong. (EC) 216/2008, Article 5 (4) has noting to do with Annex II aircraft (now Annex I). The article is not about homebuilt (experimental) aircraft. It’s about EASA permit to fly or EASA restricted CofA (whatever that is).

Well, that’s fine! Learning something new everyday ;-)

However, my point is, that in the whole paragraph there is no mentioning of VFR restrictions for aircraft on a PtF.

EDNG, EDST, Germany

Supersonic wrote:

Permission is not required for aircraft registered in the European Economic Area with a Permit to Fly with the exact wording: “This Permit to Fly is issued pursuant to Regulation (EC) 216/2008, Article 5 (4) (a) and certifies that the aircraft is capable of safe flight for the purpose and within the conditions listed below and is valid in all Member States.”

So is written in my CTLS Permit to Fly
Then for my plane in the Flight Conditions Flight Design specifically states daytime and VMC .
Not sure if I could , with avionic and license , to fly IFR in daytime an VMC

Pegaso airstrip, Italy

All aircraft that don’t have a conventional ICAO CofA are restricted in European border crossings, and often long term parking in a country other than their country of registry, and most cannot fly IFR either due to their Permit or due to the airspace. The exact classification doesn’t change the overall picture much.

As stated previously, most owners are happy with it because it meets their requirements, and in a few places (e.g. the UK with its medical self declaration) there are key benefits. However quite a lot of people found out about the restrictions only after they spent say 100k.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

So
" This permit to fly….is valid in all member states "
What should mean ??
I’m speaking of EASA PtF of course.

Pegaso airstrip, Italy
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