Udo wrote:
I flew the BlackShape Prime last weekend in EDWF Leer Papenburg and it was just amazing. It flew like “a little” jetfighter with awesome performance. If i could affort it, i would buy one immediately!
I flew one a few weeks ago at EHLE and I agree. Very agile and solid feel. Visibility great, also fine downwards (from the front seat). Low noise level. I fitted fine under the canopy in the front seat, less so in the back seat (my height is 1.91, but but going down each day 
But of course it is not so much the overall length of a person but the ‘head to butt’ dimension that counts).
TL aircraft of CZ has a similar design, the Stream. I can’t tell the difference in looks. It has a side stick instead of a center stick. TL says they are ready to take orders, but does anyone know when they could actually deliver?
Price range of these machines close to 200k€, plus VAT
What is the certification category i.e. what are the international rights? It’s not a homebuilt, though I think some of the lookalikes at EDNY might have been.
What is the certification category …
The current version is a microlight. For 200.000€ plus taxes. They can not realistically believe that they will sell many of them…
200+k€ is a lot for only 92 kg useful load…
Accounting for taste is a subjective thing…
However IMHO €200k+VAT is well into the “pretty amazing personal preferences” territory.
But let’s try to be objective about this, as I would hope the designers were before sinking the money in.
What does this do which you can’t get elsewhere.
Like some homebuilts, it delivers something you can’t get certified. What is that?
For example the “original” Lancairs (320, 360 IV etc) deliver good speed for the fuel flow, by having a small cockpit volume and (basically) reduced controllability at speeds which might be appropriate to a SEP’s low speed regime. Their market exists mostly in the USA where long hard runways are common. No comparable certified type exists (obviously).
This one delivers good speed for the fuel flow too, using the same means (no free lunch). As do all the others which look so similar and have the same engine.
Hopefully, by being a lot lighter than say a Lanc 320, it should have reasonable low speed handling. Being tandem it should be more efficient than a Lanc 320 however.
So what is unique?
The style is one thing. It does look good.
And what sort of pilots will pay this much? The running costs should be low but there is a lot of “avgas money” in that 200k+VAT.
Peter wrote:
…as I would hope the designers were before sinking the money in.
If I read their history (and what’s to be found on Wikipedia) correctly, the whole thing started as some kind of university project in Turin a decade ago. Never intended as a commercial product I suppose. It was then acquired (for a symbolic figure like 1€ I would guess) by the present company which was founded for this purpose. In the province of Bari, Puglie which attracts lots of EU structural funding money in order to move some “high tech” businesses to this (very pretty) end of the world. So my personal guess is that nobody has yet invested any money of his own into this project. And the very moment this will become necessary, the whole thing will simply disappear. As so many of it’s kind before. (But I lived in Italy for 20 years and might be a tiny little bit prejudiced )
So WN you think it has no USPs, no market, and was just an EU grant milking project?
Probably 50% of the exhibits at EDNY would be in the same category. They are so obviously baloons which people float up to see if there is interest.
Raising this theme from the dead, has anyone actually had any experience with the Blackshape Prime? I’ve seen a few in EHLE offered for sale but the high empty weight (398kg!) and high stall speed – the flight instructor was saying 60 knots stall speed, means final is 80knots – is a little off putting, to say the least hence I’m asking for real world feedback on this.
For a plane that effectively should weigh 295kg in basic form, I can’t understand why most of the planes I’ve seen are closer to 400kg empty whereas a VL3, fully equipped, or a Shark, will weigh in around 340kg…..
I flew the Blackshape three times and the (similar) TL-Stream once. Approach speed in both aircraft was 65 knots and that felt absolutely fine. 60 knots stall speed cannot be true for the Blackshape. I remember doing an appch-to-stall in the Stream and was still happily flying at 35-40 KIAS IIRC. I was less impressed with the Blackshape when it came to take-off performance. Although being C/S, the acceleration generated by that 2-blade prop was not impressive. Must have taken at least 300-350m ground roll but I could not measure it exactly. 2 POB. The Stream with its 3-blade prop did much better.
aart wrote:
I flew the Blackshape three times and the (similar) TL-Stream once. Approach speed in both aircraft was 65 knots and that felt absolutely fine. 60 knots stall speed cannot be true for the Blackshape. I remember doing an appch-to-stall in the Stream and was still happily flying at 35-40 KIAS IIRC. I was less impressed with the Blackshape when it came to take-off performance. Although being C/S, the acceleration generated by that 2-blade prop was not impressive. Must have taken at least 300-350m ground roll but I could not measure it exactly. 2 POB. The Stream with its 3-blade prop did much better.
Thanks for the feedback but what can you say about the real world performance in cruise? I’ve seen (eg) VL3, Shark aircraft flying on flightradar24 and they achieve (same day) 140knots each way whereas the Prime typically is seen around 115TAS?
