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ECAC Status for homebuilt / experimental (flight privileges within Europe)

Hi europaxs, I have sent you a pm.

For the purposes of a public debate, I would like to put my latest position on the table. I have been advised from multiple sources that the blanket ECAC permission applies and that Germany had implemented it as agreed in 1980, from very reputable sources.

However, the quotes like you are around GEN 1-17. To check that we are on the latest issue, in the version that is available via skydemon and Eurocontrol EADS; and also at my flying club, there is no GEN 1-17, but there is a GEN 1.2-16 and GEN1.2-17 of which section III applies :-

III. Permission for entry for aircraft with restricted certification as well as for ultra-light aeroplanes
III.1 Aircraft with restricted certification
Foreign aircraft with restricted certification generally require entry and transport permission in Germany (see also Para II.2.4). Permission may be subject to conditions and limited in time. The application to obtain permission shall be directed to:

Luftfahrt-Bundesamt (LBA)
Referat B1 Hermann-Blenk-Straße 26
D-38108 Braunschweig Deutschland/Germany
Tel.: +49 531 2355-3120, 3121, 3123, 3124, 3125, 3160 Fax: +49 531 2355-3197, 3198

A copy of the following documents shall be attached to the applica- tion for permission:

1. Airworthiness certificate including the restrictions or
2. Permit to Fly including the conditions
3. Noise certificate
4. Certificate showing entry of the aircraft in the aeronautical
register of the State of Registry (certificate of registration)
5. Proof of the annual inspection
6. Licence of the pilot-in-command, issued by the State of Registry of the aircraft
7. Proof of third-party liability insurance (see Item I.5).
8. If the aircraft is registered in a non-EASA state, additional
proof may be demanded from the applicant.

The application must be submitted two full working days prior to commencing the intended flight, at the latest.
Entry is not permitted without an explicit entry permission.

Permission will generally be granted for the purpose and duration applied for; however, for 180 days in the calendar year at the most. It may be subject to conditions.

Permission is not required for aircraft registered in the European Economic Area with a Permit to Fly with the exact wording: “This Permit to Fly is issued pursuant to Regulation (EC) 216/2008, Article 5 (4) (a) and certifies that the aircraft is capable of safe flight for the purpose and within the conditions listed below and is valid in all Member States.”

Which is being argued towards me as permission is require for all foreign registered home builds, unless the final paragraph is true on the permit, which I unstandardised is only present on the EASA Permits. I can see that argument, and have nothing to counter it at the moment.

Last Edited by italianjon at 30 Jul 07:26
EDHS, Germany

What you refer to are PTF-aircraft, which are NOT homebuilts. The AIP GEN 1-17 applies and that was confirmed to me by the LBA shortly because I was puzzled by exactly the same.
I’ll reply to your mail shortly.
No problem to fly in Germany, believe me

EDLE

europaxs wrote:

The AIP GEN 1-17 applies and that was confirmed to me by the LBA shortly because I was puzzled by exactly the same

Where can this AIP GEN 1-17 be found exactly?

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

A registration in Germany is not possible unless the homebuilt was built in Germany under the supervision of OUV

Does that mean that if you start with say a UK-reg homebuilt, to put it on D-reg you need to dismantle it to a specified extent and re-assemble it?

I heard that France requires a 51% disassembly in such a situation, which is a joke.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

I heard that France requires a 51% disassembly in such a situation, which is a joke.

Not necessarily a joke. If correct, it is probably just a result of the regulations and the intent of the regulations. The intent is to let people build and fly an aircraft for recreational and educational purposes. The intent is not to flood the GA market with cheap high performance aircraft built by amateurs.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Yes; I agree.

They are trying to protect the “homebuilder concession”, in a system where different countries have different regulations (there is no “EASA for homebuilts”) and where “everybody” would end up buying homebuilts from the one country which has the easiest rules and then transfer them to their own country’s reg.

Hence this, etc.

My “joke” comment was just saying that not a whole lot of people are going to take their plane apart just to put it in the D-reg or F-reg. It just restricts the movement of such aircraft.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

It just restricts the movement of such aircraft.

Exactly. Anyway, the Norwegian CAA is rather pragmatic and importing is easy, except from the US. There is no such “philosophical” intent in the regulations, and the 51% rule is there mostly as a “check” that the builder has acquired enough competence to be able to maintain the aircraft. For the CAA, only airworthiness is of importance.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

@LeSving: You won’t find the German AIP in the WWW unfortunately (and unlike most of the other european AIP).
@Peter: dismanteling and reassemble is not enough. I know that, because the LBA doesn’t want to issue a german registration, although I rig and derig my Europa at every flight. They say the 51% rule is not applicable

Last Edited by europaxs at 30 Jul 11:33
EDLE

You can get the sections of the AIP via plates in Skydemon… But you may need a subscription.

You could also try EADS on the Eurocontrol web site but I think you need to register.

EDHS, Germany

europaxs wrote:

You won’t find the German AIP in the WWW unfortunately (and unlike most of the other european AIP).

Sure, it’s on Eurocontrol EAD. Only the VACs are not there but sold separately.

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