Peter wrote:
The Norwegian homebuilt IFR privileges are extremely limited in terms of the airspace in which you can do it. Done to death here already
Just because you don’t agree, doesn’t mean it is “done to death”. Besides, define “extremely limited in terms of airspace”. I mean Norway, Sweden and Finland alone is the same area as UK, Germany and France combined. Besides, in France, no problem in any case, and France is larger than UK and Germany combined. Than add to Italy, Spain, Portugal, Poland, Czech, Ukraine etc and you will find where you cannot fly IFR in a homebuilt is only a small fraction of the area where you actually can. By people actually doing it, I have heard of no problems whatsoever, anywhere. This “problem” seems to be very much restricted to a website called EuroGA, and nonexistent in the real world.
Silvaire wrote:
I don’t think you can move an existing F-registered homebuilt to N-registered Experimental Amateur Built.
You can, but only if the aircraft is already in the US…
Just found this out from an FAA DAR here in Europe.
Therefore, to the transfer an EASA Experimental to N-Reg from within Europe, isn’t possible.
Theoretically, I could fly it to the US, change the reg there, and then fly it back…
Would cost a minimum of $10k in flight costs and fees though.
Peter wrote:
That’s interesting. So the FAA wants to see it while it is being built.
I’ve just heard from an individual who bought a foreign-built experimental and imported it into the US, that they didn’t need to show the full construction process, because it has already been registered overseas. They only needed to note that the construction log existed.
Yes, the FAA requires a construction log. Pretty cool to read them, actually. Very informative and enlightening about the process and how different people do the same exact thing differently…
europaxs wrote:
I can confirm this. I bought my Experimental in UK (G-reg) and transferred it to the Netherlands as well.
If it’s not possible to stay on the F-reg., I would go for the dutch
N-reg is currently off the plate… so NL is looking good at this point!
Still doing research into keeping it on the F-reg though. I think I’ll need to know somebody in France who will share the burden with me…
Anyone know off-hand what the requirements for keeping an F-reg outside of France are?
I plan on flying a lot, so jumping out of country every once in a while isn’t hard, especially when we’re talking about Austria… a 5 minute flight would put me over the border, and a tiedown for an evening would be painless…
europaxs wrote:
If there are Cozys on the dutch register already (same engine and prop would be even better), that would make things a lot easier for you. However you have a limitation to day/VFR.
Prop was custom designed by a specialized engineering company. Quite a small prop, but still delivers excellent performance.
Day VFR is so limiting. I can live with the flight planning and patience required to fly VFR, but NVFR is just so much better… Usually quieter up there and I love watching the motorways at night… I find NVFR to be some kind of therapeutic…
Would hate to lose the capability…
Peter wrote:
For Dutch (PH-reg) you need a Dutch mailbox service – see e.g. here (there are caveats to that post – here …
Thanks! Homework assignment accepted. :)
Peter wrote:
I looked up the Cozy. As a canard it will be efficient
160kts @ 6.5gph @ 8500’
1200nm range on that setting (52g tank)
The sitting arrangement is fantastic as well (for the pilot and co-pilot), as the seats are reclined. Amazingly comfortable seating. Getting in is a booger and the backseat isn’t for anyone over 5’8" or so… (depending on how it is configured).
Oh, and taking off the engine cowling provides fantastic access to the engine…
LeSving wrote:
To get it there though, you have to show a log with pictures from the build process, which has to be approved, you have to import it to Norway (25% sales tax)
25% tax… ouch. I’ll hold off on that one for a while…
When I’m ready to go IFR, I’ll think about ponying up the dough :)
Thanks for the info though, good to know.
europaxs wrote:
Even Europas went around the world, to the Canary Islands, South Africa…….
europaxs, I’m interested in flying to ZA… have anymore information on the flights down? I would like to start planning it…
Peter wrote:
I once shared a hangar with a pilot who flew an ultralight UK to Kathmandu (literally) and did a lot of IMC on the way.
The dirty secrets only shared over a brew and established trust… I miss this. Europe doesn’t seem to have quite the adventurous spirit to it that the US does when it comes to these things. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t believe in unsafe flying, but being an adventurer always comes with unexpected circumstances and risk. Going through them tends to lead one to become more cautious actually… which is what’s great about hearing such stories.
Have only found one such crazy pilot over here so far… and they weren’t crazy, they just understood flying as a practical experience (they keep going to Alaska and Norway for the freedom of flying anywhere… and the challenge of bush flying)
Peter wrote:
I meant long distance VFR too, which is difficult to do in general without Mode S.
Can you elaborate on this for me Peter? Not sure I know why Mode S is really needed for longer trips. Would be great to know. Thanks.
Peter wrote:
This is not to say “spamcans” do long trips. They mostly don’t.
I’ll completely second that one. The PA-28 I flew over here (IFR rated btw) and the C172 both had GPS installed. The sad part was, when i left the pattern, my tracks were the only ones (of about 50+) to do so… Guys just go round-and-round and never escape the tether…
That’s a hell of an expensive hobby, if you ask me. I want to go somewhere, and see something. GA is great for that, especially in Europe, where roads aren’t always that conducive to making a quick dash somewhere… I’ve found that I end up flying to a large city, renting a car, and then driving a few hours to get to the coast, or to a neat location.
Better to fly direct and pop out a fold-up scooter or bike and ride around…
Peter wrote:
The range of a C152 makes it useless for anything but “burger runs” – unless you are really determined.
Besides the fact that you can only squeeze in one other person… although getting in/out of the 152 isn’t bad…
Flying to Croatia from Austria is a piece of cake. Flying to Croatia with 3 others to have fun with is a whole new party altogether… :)
(btw, it is 8 hours driving vs 2 hrs flying from here to there, and that equals the ability to take a full 3-day weekend in Croatia vs driving 2 days to get there and back for 1 day actually being there…) Flying rocks!
europaxs wrote:
But you know, that you can depart again after refuelling?
And pay some ridiculous landing fees (especially in places like Italy and Greece), plus that’s a minimum of 30 minutes for every landing. For short hops, no big deal, but for flying a thousand nm… it turns what could be a trip into a whole expedition…
Better to have the option than the limitation in my opinion.
Thanks for the info Piotr. (looks like there are a number of Peters piloting here… interesting)
Piotr Szut, an Estonian pilot, is a fictional character created by Hergé, the most famous Belgian comics creator. As I’m based in Belgium, I chose Piotr Szut as my pseudonym on this forum (I have things in common with him: his French is as bad as my English and my vision is poor).
I find it very amusing that people might think that it could be my real name.
Requesting a special permission to register the plane under your name might work, another workaround would be to register the plane under the name of a special purpose legal entity, whose registered office would be in the EU.
Thanks for the chuckle… :)
Should’ve figured Piotr isn’t a Belgian name, but the world is getting smaller, so one can’t really tell origins by names anymore.
Just a small update in case anyone is interested:
I just spoke with AustroControl, and learned quite a bit. Friendly guys there, and are very helpful.
1) As long as a homebuilt is certified within an ECAC country, it can be based in any other ECAC country that has reciprocation without any additional permit.
2) AustroControl does do IFR certification for homebuilts/experimentals. Only one aircraft has made it through, and they were only able to receive IFR in VMC certification because of IMC survivability requirements.
3) To register a homebuilt with AustroControl (if it is already registered in another ECAC state) costs about 3k euro. All flight tests should be well documented to prevent having to refly and document the performance of the aircraft.
4) No Noise Certificate is required to fly in Austrian Airspace. It is only needed if an airport requires one…
This applies for overflights and operations. This also means an OE aircraft can be based in France as well, without any problem.
So, technically, no permits are required to fly through any airspace, as long as the aircraft is current on an ECAC member registration…
Jan_Olieslagers wrote:
Regarding the ELT: we were recently (today?) informed that EASA will soon accept PLB’s instead of ELT’s, which might save you a bit of money and perhaps some hassle.
Thanks for that Jan.
Did they provide you with any time frame for that rollout?
I’ve just purchased an ELT to put in the plane, but if I don’t need one, I don’t want one… a PLB would be just fine.
Thanks or sharing these informations – interesting!
IIRC I’ve heard this “IFR in VMC-stuff” in the case of a Lancair in Italy, too. If you stay on the F-reg, it would be interesting, if they allow IFR or at least NVFR (or is the latter already approved?)
AF wrote:
1) As long as a homebuilt is certified within an ECAC country, it can be based in any other ECAC country that has reciprocation without any additional permit.
That’s what I’m doing (PH-reg and based in Germany).
BTW: if you plan to fly to Germany (which – regarding your travelling ambitions is likely) you should carry a noise certificate or you can expect rediculous landing fees at some airfields.
it can be based in any other ECAC country that has reciprocation
Is there a list of these reciprocal agreements between Austria and other countries?
Otherwise, for France, we have this (more background around here) and nobody has yet found something to the contrary.
I don’t doubt that a PH-reg (or an F-reg or a G-reg, etc) can be based in Germany, because an N-reg (the most useful one of them all, allowing e.g. the Lancair Evolution, and allowing IFR by default) can be based in Germany, which is the most liberal known European country, with a 365 day limit and then you can re-apply for another 365 days, and so on.
Peter wrote:
N-reg (the most useful one of them all, allowing e.g. the Lancair Evolution, and allowing IFR by default) can be based in Germany
Funny thing is, that you have a general permission in the german AIP for operating ECAC-reg. homebuilts but with a limitation to day/VFR.
If you have a non ECAC Reg., you have to apply for permission (which in turn is limited to 180 days per year), but the operating limitations of the country of registration apply (in case of N-reg no VFR-Limitation). This is logical, no?
Funny thing is, that you have a general permission in the german AIP for operating ECAC-reg. homebuilts but with a limitation to day/VFR.
Does that mean that Germany requires no permit for an ECAC-reg homebuilt to fly there and land and be indefinitely based there?
It’s funny how we go round and round, but nobody can remember everything. I certainly can’t 
This is logical, no
I guess there was an intention to be “nicer” to planes registered in warm and friendly and peace-loving European-comrade countries, rather than the Great Satan who brought us MacDonalds
I don’t think the OP is (right now) after IFR but the ability to do that legally is in the intersection of
1) the country of registry (i.e. what does the Permit say?), and
2) the regulations of the airspace you are flying through
and same goes for Night VFR.
The UK LAA IFR programme (for example) will address point 1) but can’t address point 2). This is a digression in this thread, but IMHO the practical benefit will be the ability to do legal IFR in the UK, and some other places which are very difficult to establish. But you can already do IFR anywhere you want in Class G, and, ahem, ahem, in Class E too, without being detected 
So this will enable someone to overtly land on an ILS etc without drawing attention. Or do a Eurocontrol flight in the UK.
