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Changing horses..

Hmmm… I have just got my calculator out on that one, but it would be getting off topic

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

well, of course it all depends how would we define an adult.
Lets do a quick calculation:
240 litres of gas weight 180 kg
1100 – 615 – 180 = 305 kg that’s how much I can put inside once all the tanks are full
305 / 4 = 76,25 kg and that’s the weight of average adult in case of my airplane.

It also depends on how you define range. 800nm range to zero fuel means about 500nm in practice if you want usable wx alternates, in Europe.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

mh wrote:

They’ll do the same, once properly certified (e.g. Fascination D9-VLA, Tomark SD-4 LSA, Bristell N23, etc.). And they are even capable to be flown at night…

Yea I know that it’s just a question of certification. I had a discussion with the guys from Sport Cruiser a long time ago, same story there with different figures.

mh wrote:

Those ULM 2-searters are mostly sub-1-seaters, once loaded with full fuel and luggage.

Yea well that is the problem with those arbitrary numbers. I guess once they get figures which corresponds to their capability this will change.

But also a lot of certified airplanes are similar…. and there is that lovely 1999 kg limit which makes a lot of quite expensive airplanes one seaters too.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Mooney_Driver wrote:

I guess once they get figures which corresponds to their capability this will change.

They have. It’s called LSA (or with Amendment 5, it’s calles CS-23), and it’s even less work/bureaucracy than having a ULM certified for the regional scope of an EASA TC.

mh
Aufwind GmbH
EKPB, Germany

mh wrote:

They have. It’s called LSA (or with Amendment 5, it’s calles CS-23),

Well perfect then, so how would aart have to go about getting his plane certified for 600 kg? Should be a piece of cake then.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

europaxs wrote:

alanr wrote:

In the UK a Bristell NG5 can not be an ultralight/microlight. It comes under the LAA Permit system with a 600kg MAUW. Mine is fully loaded equipmentwise as per the OP’s aircraft, A/P, Leather, CS Prop etc and weighs 330kg empty.

Is an Autopilot allowed in a Microlight in the UK? AFAIK it’s not allowed in German registered Microlights. They are all “deactivated” here

I have a Dynon 2axis autopilot with autotrim, which incidently works brilliantly, all full approved by the LAA. I built the aircraft myself from a kit under the UK 51% rule. As I said previously a Bristell NG5 is not a Microlight in the UK. It is an Annex II LSA aircraft which has a MAUW of 600kg.

aart..the 5kg weight difference between your aircraft and mine is probably the chute…I didn’t feel the need to fit one.

Last Edited by alanr at 02 Mar 09:11

Mooney_Driver wrote:

Well perfect then, so how would aart have to go about getting his plane certified for 600 kg? Should be a piece of cake then.

He should have bought an LSA/VLA. Going ULM will remain a one-way-track and I wouldn’t bet on an easy upgrade of MTOM for most of the aircraft.

mh
Aufwind GmbH
EKPB, Germany

Malte,

mh wrote:

He should have bought an LSA/VLA.

not so straightforward by the sound of it:

aart wrote:

It is the ‘HD’ version, which has a stronger wing spar and is marketed in the US as a LSA. This means that I’ll very likely be able to get it ‘certified’ for a 600 kg MTOM this or next year, as it will also meet the other requirements in terms of max stall speed, max empty weight and max take-off distance.

So if I understand it correctly he has in fact bought the LSA/VLA but it is currently registered as an ULM. So the question would be, can it be turned into a LSA/VLA legally to get the 600 kg MTOM?

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

I’m not sure what kind of effort would be involved by the manufacturer to have his design upgraded to LSA/VLA status. But no doubt it also involves recurring organizational burocracy that may or may not add to the safety of the aircraft but will certainly add to its cost.. I’ll try to educate myself a bit more at Aero..

What it would mean though is that some airfields that i like to go to would become inaccessible. There is some legal ambiguity in Spain on this topic. Some say there is no more distinction between UL and GA fields, but some airfield operators insist on ‘ULM’s only’ on their field.

Maintenance. if I would like to (although i won’t) i’m free to do everything myself, not possible on a LSA/VLA. And how about parts? Form 1 for LSA/VLA and nothing for ULM? For ULM’s registered in Germany the only requirement is for an annual by a “level 5 UL inspector”.

And then the engine. Certified vs non-certified Rotax. Nobody has been able to give me a convincing story about whether the certified one would be safer in any way. Same production line, same SB service. Surely more expensive. I’m very open to be educated though!

The money saving may not be relevant for me, but the accessibility of certain fields and maintenance flexibility are, which do not make the UL a dead-end street at all for me, and i suspect that goes for many others for various reasons.

Private field, Mallorca, Spain
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