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Annex 2 aircraft in France with foreign registration (France cancels treaties on non-F-reg homebuilt privileges)

Dear All,

Regarding the new French regulation about annex 2 aircrafts (https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/eli/arrete/2018/1/8/TRAA1728022A/jo/texte), I would like to inventory Foreign registered based in France concerned with this “small” problem to leave France after 28 days the later !

I’ve already a list of a dozen of Glasair, Lancair and RV.

As next week, I heard DGAC will have discussion about this situation, bigger is the list, bigger is the hope…

Thank you for your collaboration

Jean

PS : I’m in PH-…

LFGI

Side-question: does this new regulation make it acceptable to, say, fly to Spain for a day every month and come back to France? I don’t see any limit on the number of “28 days” periods that can be granted, although I admit that this would be playing with the rules.

(I’m flying a certified N-reg but we recently had this discussion with some friends about bringing a F1 racer from the US to France).

Last Edited by wleferrand at 11 Feb 16:14

As far as I know, if I consider to be as stupid as this regulation, yes I will fly over Switzerland (or any other country) few couple of minutes with flight plan, announcing “crossing border” and back home, even not needed to make a full stop or T&G and wait for 1 day…
When you decide to implement this kind of regulation, I don’t understand the purpose :

  • or you consider to give opportunity to bring home annex2 aircrafts in your country with local registration (F-Pxxx in case of France) to have better maintenance check
  • or you consider annex2 not registered home are to dangerous to overfly, land, etc…and then you ban them from your country

In the middle, I don’t understand. Further more they don’t give any delay or any other options…Crazy

Sorry I’m a little bit aggressive, but it looks like the wish to disqualify some kind of passionated pilots. For my personal situation, I registered in PH not because I love Gouda and windmills, but buying this aircraft in Belgium, PH was the best option

LFGI

On a very quick read of the google translation, isn’t this basically the same thing as the UK CAA version?

It is really curious why this has come out.

This may be relevant, especially this post which explains why France has filled up with non-F-reg homebuilts. And you know why PH-reg is popular; their national CAA is relaxed about where they are based so long as you maintain a mailbox address.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Hi Peter, You’re right about the translation. It’s exactly the same regulation, and it seems being decided by EASA.
As far as I know, France didn’t say anything. Consequence : hours on F-Pxxx won’t be anymore counted for PPLA renewal, and school instruction not anymore allowed !!!
Then we don’t talk about a dozen of aircraft, but probably around 90 in French aeroclubs. It’s a shame.

Thank you for the link. What I know about kits impossible to build in France, the case of the Lancair F-Wxxx and one of my friend Glasair (the only one in F-Pxxx !!!) they modified the original planes “design” to fit the French regulation. Officially, these 2 aircrafts are not “Lancair” or “Glasair” but something else (I don’t remember, I will ask). Thus, not a process for rookies.

Last point, the big difference between PH CAA and DGAC is not the fact to be relax, but only being pragmatic…!!!

LFGI

The bit which is from EASA is the ban on training (towards EASA licenses, which in most countries is all there is; the UK has the NPPL) etc in uncertified aircraft. It’s a hugely stupid and aggressive move but one can understand why this might come from some department in EASA.

I wonder if Patrick Ky is still there?

The curious thing is the apparent coordination between the UK CAA and the DGAC to allow overflight for 28 days without having to obtain a permit as one apparently used to have to do. That (privileges of uncertified aircraft in one’s own airspace) is nothing to do with EASA. I wonder if other European CAAs will be doing the same thing. It could be some sort of organised clampdown on long term basing of foreign reg homebuilts – really bad news for those operating them if the DGAC refuses an F registration for them. It would be bad in Germany too which is full of N-reg ones which cannot be (legally) based anywhere else in Europe for long (28 days is usual).

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

France has canceled former bilateral agreements with UK, Belguim, Germany, Switzerland, NL, etc
So I can imagine, they will apply the same rules. I heard a lot of MCR are based in Germany with F-Pxxx registration. Which means they are in the same deep s…. as we are
As you said, this is really bad news.

LFGI

What agreements were those?

I vaguely recall there was one allowing the NPPL to be used in France (G-reg an only with a Class 2 medical).

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Basically, with these countries, it was allowed to fly, land, stay as long as you wish. Which was common sense.

LFGI

We have had many threads on the various “homebuilt privileges” matters and nobody mentioned this before. Also no homebuilder I have ever known mentioned it. For example here and specifically this.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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