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PA46 Malibu N264DB missing in the English Channel

The problem is that Eurocontrol routings to/from the southern UK often bring up weird routes. See e.g. here. And in that thread you get some “commentary” which is pertinent to this discussion, too…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

At ~4000ft near EGMD I picked up some 3cm in 5 mins. Smooth stratus, 1500ft base, 4500ft tops.

I did not have much practical exposure to the topic, I learned to fly somewhere hot where freezing levels sits at FL150 most of the time

I may try that kind of flying [at 4000ft with 1500ft base, 4500ft tops] in open cockpits, it will give me a good reminder on icing compared to a warm cosy cockpit

On flying without boots/tks, am I naive to think one should just fly continuously at freezing level +/-5000ft? or just call it off? (still it means 10min inside the freezing band)
I don’t think less than 10 degrees will do any better to clear any of the ice, especially with zero sun exposure or at night….

On the accident, clearly, they did not have the right aircraft for the mission (bring a 10 m£ boy for his training tomorrow), irrespective of pilot rating and weather, it will still a go ahead…

Last Edited by Ibra at 22 Jan 20:32
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Ice respects no aircraft and it is looking as if we have just had another very harsh reminder of this fact.

Boots will just delay it, and/or they may bridge – especially if not used right.

You mean if you don’t start cycling them immediately upon detecting ice or even before entering icing conditions, as per FAA recommendations, right?

I wonder what it is with Malibus which cause such accidents again and again. Are they so critical in icing?

I recall several such accidents with control loss and break up with quite experienced folks on the controls, one of them was my next stand neighbour at LSZH which fell out of the sky after a brief emergency call near Mainau/Lake of Constance. There also was a Jetprop which came out of the clouds vertically near Geneva a few years back. I have not gone through all the accidents but I recall that at the time quite a few people commented about the fact that the PA46 has a tendency to bite in ice?

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Closest GRAMET I could get, a few hours after accident flight

Antonio
LESB, Spain

I appreciate the source is weak but here states that the pilot requested an “emergency landing”. This would indicate a mayday call was made. Just info.

EGSX

I dont think there is much if any evidence to support ice bridging;

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aviation-international-news/2009-01-28/de-icingntsb-ice-bridging-myth

and this has been discussed before.

There is evidence that boots have limits as to the amount of icing with which they can cope and I am not sure any aircraft is certified for flight in severe icing conditions. Given the actuals I have seen, it seems surprising icing conditions would have been beyond the ability of fully functioning boots, but who knows. My impression is that aircraft with boots cope with ice very effectively as should be expected.

Mooney_Driver wrote:

PA46 has a tendency to bite in ice?

I guess most slick aircraft with serious de-ice equipment will go down quickly in ice if the latter is OFF or U/S
Even faster than a C172 which is aerodynamically ugly in the first place?

I had a quick look at accident data for airliners with loss of control due to icing, I was surprised that even quick 2000ft decent trough an ice layer with fuselage/engine de-ice OFF can lead to loss of control, I never tough this could happen in a small aircraft…

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

TimR wrote:

I appreciate the source is weak but here states that the pilot requested an “emergency landing”. This would indicate a mayday call was made. Just info.

That statement has vanished from the article in question.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland
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