Some lessons learned from a very nice Winter VFR, 900NM flight from Toussus to Brindisis Italy.
Fuel : As has been discussed many times in the past here on EuroGA, AvGas has become very scarce in Italy. Of the 4 public airports in the South East of Italy, Foggia, Bari, Brindisi & Grotaglia only 1Foggia had AvGas. In the end, I decided to fuel in Bastia which is about the halfway point on this trip. I was rewarded with the cheapest AvGas price in mant years : 1.70€ /litre ! 
VFR Routing : The straight line, point to point route would have me flying straight over the Alps and right down the middle of the HUGE Milan Class A TMA. I’ve navigated it before on a previous trip to Croatia but that was in the Winter with perfect VFR weather. The alternative was staying West of the Alps and crossing the Mediteranea via the North of Corsica, then skirt along the North of the Rome Class A TMA, just as vast as the Milan TMA, then South skirting the East limit of the TMA along the mountains East of Rome and Naples. That’s the route I chose and it worked out well.
VFR Flight in Italy : I studied the Rome TMA carefully and planned to keep out of the Class A which in France (at least) is a big no-no. I filed a VFR FP from Bastia to Brindisi in typical “VFR minimalist” form that is Departure airfield, Arrival, FIR xing and 1 or 2 turning points. Almost immediately after raising Rome on the radio they started asking me insistently for reporting points and ETEs . Normally I would use any VORs or NDBs that were on my route but in this case they were all inside the Class A TMA ! At any rate, they had given me an IFR squawk, so I figuered what the hell, since they were so insistent that I started routing within the Class A using the VORs and low-level IFR waypoints. Sure enough, they were quite happy with that and never mentioned a word about the fact that I was actually in Class A airspace ! Needless to say, for the return flight, I filed a very detailed FP using low-level IFR waypoints all the way and that worked out perfectly. The lesson here seems quite obvious: Class A in Italy is NOT the same as the ROW, and is open to VFR just as long as you file a FP and act accordingly.
LIBR Brindisi : I was the only GA plane on the ramp and we were greeted with a full ground crew of 4 , and a van to drive us to the terminal. I protested that I did’nt need any handling but the nice woman told me that I had “no choice” … That being the case, I take FULL advantage of the handling facilities which means emptying the complimentary fridge and while my wife stocks up on all the latest “people” magazines in the lounge and having the staff jocky our bags all the way to the rental car On the way out, we repeat the process, making sure we get the full VIP treatment, including full detailed weather briefing and FP filing To my surprise the handling charge was just 34€, way better value than the 100€ for zero service that one usually finds. The other charges were fairly cheap, excepting the typical Italian “pax” fee of about 30€, total bill with 4 days parking was 110€ all in.
I’ll post some more fotos when I get a chance.
Glad you enjoyed it. Many times, people make it sound harder then it really is.
Let me comment on “VFR in Italy”…
VFR Flight in Italy : I studied the Rome TMA carefully and planned to keep out of the Class A which in France (at least) is a big no-no. I filed a VFR FP from Bastia to Brindisi in typical “VFR minimalist” form that is Departure airfield, Arrival, FIR xing and 1 or 2 turning points.
Just for info: the rules require a waypoint at least each 150 NM or 30 minutes flight time.
Almost immediately after raising Rome on the radio they started asking me insistently for reporting points and ETEs.
Here’s a big and common misunderstanding: they don’t do that in order to harass pilots. What they try is to find out what the exact routing will be (they don’t have the flightplan data at their hands, plus after all, intentions may change), in order to understand if it is VFR compatible and whether you will cross any controlled airspace along the way. They do that because they always want to “pre-coordinate” CAS crossings with the relevant units beforehand. So, it’s actually more a case of trying to “care” for you as much as possible rather than of harassing pilots, even though it sometimes feels a bit like it.
Normally I would use any VORs or NDBs that were on my route but in this case they were all inside the Class A TMA ! At any rate, they had given me an IFR squawk
What is an IFR squawk and how do you know? A discrete code certainly is not an IFR squawk.
so I figuered what the hell, since they were so insistent that I started routing within the Class A using the VORs and low-level IFR waypoints.
Even though I know what you mean: officially, there is no such thing as an IFR waypoint.
Sure enough, they were quite happy with that and never mentioned a word about the fact that I was actually in Class A airspace !
I have heard about people getting VFR clearance through the Milan and Rome class Alphas occasionally. Myself I haven’t tried. Many times, I hear / heard them insist pilots stay clear of the Alpha though.
Are you really sure you touched all that much class Alpha after all? The new Rome TMA is very complex and in the outer parts, the lower limites of the class Alpha are often very high, so one often ends up flying below the Alpha. Sometimes, when your flight crosses minimal bits of class Alpha, they will just not care and let you go.
Needless to say, for the return flight, I filed a very detailed FP using low-level IFR waypoints all the way and that worked out perfectly. The lesson here seems quite
obvious: Class A in Italy is NOT the same as the ROW, and is open to VFR just as long as you file a FP and act accordingly.
The flightplan really doesn’t play much of a role. Also, I wouldn’t count on being able to cross the class Alpha every time.
Bosco – boscomantico wrote:
Here’s a big and common misunderstanding: they don’t do that in order to harass pilots. What they try is to find out what the exact routing will be (they don’t have the flightplan data at their hands, plus after all, intentions may change), in order to understand if it is VFR compatible and whether you will cross any controlled airspace along the way. They do that because they always want to “pre-coordinate” CAS crossings with the relevant units beforehand. So, it’s actually more a case of trying to “care” for you as much as possible rather than of harassing pilots, even though it sometimes feels a bit like it.I would agree, completely. Very different from VFR in France though, so much so that my wife commented on it – she usually ignores all the radio chatter
Here’s my return FP : LIBR ROBOT AKAMO TEA PEMAR GIKIN ELB MILNO NORKA STP LUC LFMA
I climbed to 3000’ to ROBOT then got on top, 6,000’ @ AKAMO then climbed to 7,000’ after TEA and remained for the rest of the Italian portion.
I’m pretty sure I was inside the Class A @ 7,000’ from TEA to GIKIN , allbeit, very close to the Eastern border.
boscomantico wrote:
What is an IFR squawk and how do you know? A discrete code certainly is not an IFR squawk.
True, but typically, in France anyway, they tend to differentiate VFR trafic codes by 7NNN , although there are no rules for this.
boscomantico wrote:
Even though I know what you mean: officially, there is no such thing as an IFR waypoint.
A VFR pilot usually does not carry Low Level IFR Charts and waypoints are not on the VFR charts, hence the “IFR waypoint” .
boscomantico wrote:
The flightplan really doesn’t play much of a role. Also, I wouldn’t count on being able to cross the class Alpha every time.
Well, they sure did seem to be much happier with it and it made my job much easier !
Rome TMA Chart
WORLD’S WORST :
[URL fixed – image uploaded to google drive was low-res and not any more readable than this]
@Michael: something’s wrong with your picture. But thanks for posting the trip report, nice reading!
Jan_Olieslagers wrote:
something’s wrong with your picture. But thanks for posting the trip report, nice reading!
Yeah, it’s shared via Google Drive but the website doesn’t seem to like it …
Michael wrote:
The lesson here seems quite obvious: Class A in Italy is NOT the same as the ROW, and is open to VFR just as long as you file a FP and act accordingly.
My assumption is that ATC in such places don’t really care about airspace classification. One might even start to doubt whether they know about the no VFR in class A rule :-) It’s probably that all they care about is that they “have control” and can delegate it to the pilot here and there. I also get a funny feeling when I’m approaching Sabadell LELL from very high and well within the class A Barcelona TMA. While still IFR they basically ask “terrain in sight?” and then tell me to do what ever I want. There is more control being exercised when airliners are flying in the same part of the TMA. One might start to believe that ATC is for airliners and to keep non-airliners away from them. The rest of the pilots can do whatever they want …
I checked my route against the latest Rome TMA chart and I was definitely in Class A in Zona 2, 16 & 21 albeit, not by much, so I guess I was just “tolerated”
Yeah, it’s shared via Google Drive but the website doesn’t seem to like it …
I fixed it.
Please see Posting Tips on how to post images. Posting an image (e.g. a .jpg) is not same as posting a web page (e.g. .html). What you did was you posted an html page as an image i.e.
It would be technically possible to write code which searches an html page for an image and extracts the one it thinks is most likely the one to use, but there would be various problems because most people who do this are referencing a web page like something from Flickr which contains about 100 small images of which 99 are irrelevant.
Many thanks for the report! I was watching you on FR24
Thanks for the very interesting report, Michael, especially since you took the effort, to make the trip VFR. BTW, what was the reason – you could have done it IFR much more relaxed, right?
