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Piaggio introduces the new Avanti P180 EVO.

There’s also just recently been extra emphasis on a problem that’s not well understood: the stall speed is different in ground effect compared to out of ground effect. This is one of the reasons that killed the test pilot crew during the certification of the new Gulsftream G650 when it crashed at Roswell, NM. Your AOA can be higher in IGE than OGE. The G650, as it climbed out from a max AOA scenario on one engine, stalled and dropped a wing that started dragging.

Last Edited by AdamFrisch at 25 May 21:00

It’s a neat design.

If it were so neat, then more than one aeroplane would employ it after 110 years of powered flight… The biggest disadvantage that comes with the canard (or three-wing as in this case) layout is the runway requirement. 1000m unfactored landing distance is way too much for a light turboprop and makes it almost unusable for commercial operators who have to apply factors. The sales brochure you can download from the Piaggio site is a ridiculous joke: On one page, they compare their cabin size with the smalles business jets on the market and on the next, they compare their fuel consumption with the largest jets…

EDDS - Stuttgart

There’s also just recently been extra emphasis on a problem that’s not well understood: the stall speed is different in ground effect compared to out of ground effect.

Ummm, this is well understood.

Last Edited by JasonC at 25 May 21:06
EGTK Oxford

I posted this in the wrong thread, was meant for the guy crashing the Cessna on a soft field takeoff, but…

…Jason, I would argue it’s not that well understood. I was never taught anything about it, nor is it part of any PPL curriculum I’ve heard of, pr special emphasis item. And by the crash of that G650, it appears even experienced test pilots and the engineers for the flight test program were not well briefed in it.

Last Edited by AdamFrisch at 25 May 23:49

There is one standing here at ENVA right now, an Avanti. Saw it when I had a short flight this evening. It was staying on the “wrong” side of the runway, the military side. There is a NATO maneuver going on right now, some connection?

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Italian Air Force flies Piaggio Avanti ( to transport the generals )



Did you recognize that the landing gear is from the F104 Starfighter?

EDxx, Germany

I did also read that the EVO has a new main landing gear. Used to be a pretty expensive 12 year item with the Dowty Rotol gear they came with. Now they’ve got a new gear that costs less than half to overhaul, apparently.

Funny, my old 680V (that’s still getting fixed up) came originally with Dowty props. They were good props, but expensive when it came to overhaul. Apparently, the Dowty Rotol people are notorious for charging a lot in the European tradition, where they treat GA like we’re Airbus. Sometime ago my props got exchanged for Hartzell Q-tips via a STC. And although Hartzell is a company that also milks their customers dry with all their SB’s and AD’s, at least they can be overhauled relatively cheap.

Your AOA can be higher in IGE than OGE

That sounds like a basic rule of aerodynamics? Doesn’t it apply, to various degrees of course, to all aircraft?

EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

1000m unfactored landing distance is way too much for a light turboprop

This must be about the first time I disagree with you: why would this be worse on a twin turboprop with all the performance of an average twin jet than on those same twin jets it can replace at a fraction of the cost? With more or less the same weights and the same speeds, there’s no surprise the required runway lengths are also in the same ballpark.

Last Edited by at 22 Apr 15:27
EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

I did also read that the EVO has a new main landing gear.

Piaggio Aerospace could not get their anti-skid certified with the old gear … AFAIK some kind of oscillating / flutter when anti-skid applies and releases brake pressure (anti-skid cycling).

Last Edited by nobbi at 22 Apr 15:52
EDxx, Germany
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