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Piper Malibu PA46 N757NY down in Goose Bay.

GA would probably benefit from MCC training even though operations are mainly single pilot. Knowing how to give taxi, departure, top of descent briefs, abnormal condition situational briefs/decisions would help single pilot operations.

It depends. Single pilot ops with an instructor or mentor/safety pilot are different than multi crew ops. Most SPAs aren’t designed for MPA ops. I think more training on ADM (aeron. decision making) and PIC authority would also be beneficial.

Best mark down in writing what the two pilots expect from each other:
Left pilot (less experience): I will be PIC, carry the overall responsibility, decide xyz.
Right pilot (more experience): you mention any safety relevant items or anything you feel differently about.
or

Left pilot (ifr student): I will be pilot flying, you will be PIC, I will conduct the entire, planning and flight single pilot without any interference. You make your own thiughts and monitor me and if I progress towards a situation that you believe is not good, you will make sure I am corrected…

Right pilot (instructor): When I say my controls you let go of stick and rudder. We will practice this a few times..

CB IR Instruction
LOWG, LOWW

RobertL18C wrote:

GA would probably benefit from MCC training even though operations are mainly single pilot. Knowing how to give taxi, departure, top of descent briefs, abnormal condition situational briefs/decisions would help single pilot operations.

I’m not sure. Pretending to do something can only cause confusion. I hate when pilot sitting in RHS fiddles with frequencies trying to be useful or calls “speed alive” or seeing gear down calls “three greens”. It just distracts me and interferes with my call-outs (which I always do). If it’s single pilot operation then let’s not pretend it’s multi-pilot environment. If I need some assistance, I’ll ask and that will be limited just for the particular task (however, it has never happened yet but it might happen in future).

Last Edited by Emir at 29 Jan 14:20
LDZA LDVA, Croatia

I think the point is that when doing a breif (EFATO) before flying to someone then you are mainly doing it for yourself, any reminder helps but if you/he are on top of it, pretending to “do pros” will just cause distraction while flying

Other than that I prefer to sit there and just watch, after all not much complexity in normal GA operations (apart from button skills in new avionics or occasional relief from hand flying), I had an instructor who was calling “airspeed, airspeed” all the way from 1000ft to the ground to make this point

In the other hand, I don’t think a bunch of skilled pilots with top crew coordination would make a successful scud running VFR in IMC near complex terrain (I personally know 6 that died in C130H crash, 4 of them lived and flew together for 10 years, what they were doing bellow sector altitude? I have no clue…)

Last Edited by Ibra at 29 Jan 15:00
ESSEX, United Kingdom

What I hope would be accomplished with some of the instruction for MCC applied to single pilot operations, is improved aeronautical decision making as mentioned by Snoopy.

It would be fair to say that this flight would not have gone beyond the pre start TEM brief in a multi crew context.

Enstone (EGTN), Oxford (EGTK)

RobertL18C wrote:

What I hope would be accomplished with some of the instruction for MCC applied to single pilot operations, is improved aeronautical decision making as mentioned by Snoopy.

It would be fair to say that this flight would not have gone beyond the pre start TEM brief in a multi crew context.

Well, single crew it would have been the following. After climbing to the planed cruise altitude of FL230-250, can we safely make Greenland with adequate reserves? If not we stay on the ground. I can honestly say that I would never have even considered flying half the trip at 2000ft; or 10000ft for that matter.

Last Edited by JasonC at 29 Jan 22:37
EGTK Oxford
What I hope would be accomplished with some of the instruction for MCC applied to single pilot operations, is improved aeronautical decision making as mentioned by Snoopy.
It would be fair to say that this flight would not have gone beyond the pre start TEM brief in a multi crew context.

I understand what you mean but MCC as it is known is a „tick in the box“ to be able to apply for an airline job. It’s done in the cheapest 737 sim available and consists of mostly rote memorization of flows and callouts. Even if done in your own typical SEP it would be next to useless.

Think of it a bit like this: To untrain the up to now single pilot creature to want to always raise the gear by itself, and instead ingrain to „use“ the person sitting besides it as a new gear handle, by ordering said person to raise the gear. :) There is zero ADM present.

There is quite some ADM present in CRM courses. Usually by discussing accidents in a special way (group play, additional scenarios, change of situation etc..).

Regarding TEM and a fictional flight it would be only a bit about multi crew and more about ops specs and limits and regulating each other without regard for personal/emotional considerations. Example: Old Captain Cowboy wants to be creative and fly low without headwind, „let’s go home kid“. Young First Officer Obvious has never heard of such an idea and dives into his ipad and produces
- egpws inop MEL due date expiry imminent so no dispatch
- minimum flight altitudes along route don’t check out against OM-A
- alternate airport and fuel planning insufficient
- myriad of other things.

Cap. Cowboy is like „Too much potential trouble, let’s go to the hotel and let the airline sort it out.“

@JasonC doesn’t have this „right seat luxury“ and you can tell by his response that he has a good single pilot ADM mechanism in place.

CB IR Instruction
LOWG, LOWW

Sam_Rutherford wrote:

I believe that we were VMC when we crashed – but that the visual cues had disappeared

There was snow in the area, right? So this could well have been a white out phenomena like it happened in the Mount Erebus crash and several others I have heard of in the alps. VMC, loads of detail to the left and right but none straight ahead as there is a slope with white snow which melds seamlessly into the sky obscuring the horizon.

I have to say I was quite surprised at the accuracy of the Terrain pages even on my portable GPS, don’t think I wold like to fly in unknown terrain without it.

Your openness and willingness to share your experience is highly appreciated.

LSZH, Switzerland

I understand what you mean but MCC as it is known is a „tick in the box“ to be able to apply for an airline job.

Yes there are these training providers, and white tail students may seek this type of course to tick the box in the cheapest fashion. Airline cadet courses are typically intensive two month efforts with two weeks of CRM/orientation ground school and around 40 to 50 sectors of MCC SIM training (around 90-100 hours). With this foundation you then go onto your scheduled type and line training.

It is also not tick the box as students can, and do, get washed out during this phase of training. The SIM phase is not a monkey say monkey do flow training, but involves a large proportion of abnormal and emergency condition MCC scenarios, including weather, aircraft and NOTAM conditions.

Last Edited by RobertL18C at 30 Jan 07:43
Enstone (EGTN), Oxford (EGTK)

Airline cadet courses are typically intensive two month efforts with two weeks of CRM/orientation ground school and around 40 to 50 sectors of MCC SIM training (around 90-100 hours).

That’s how it should be but unfortunately is not always the case. I described only the typical free market 25 hour 3000€ mcc course
„of these training providers“ because that’s what most people encounter when they do these things privately. I don’t think it would he very beneficial for light GA flying single pilot or occasionally with a second pilot.

CB IR Instruction
LOWG, LOWW
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