172driver wrote:
The Panthera has made it on the cover of this month’s AOPA mag with a flight review and an 8-page inside spread. Apparently the airplane is offered in the US in the Experimental Exhibition category at a base price of around $ 600k. There is at present only one dealer, in Florida.
That won’t last long. The airworthiness for each aircraft entering E-EX category is established individually between the owner and an FAA DAR. It is explicitly not designed as a workaround for uncertified production aircraft to be sold new to the consumer, and for this type of ‘touring’ aircraft (not a warbird, aerobatic etc) the only reason to allow it is because it is unique and interesting to people attending e.g. airshows. I think that once three of them or so are in circulation, the DAR rapidly loses that position in granting an E-EX airworthiness certificate.
Am I the only one wondering what this aircraft could’ve been if it instead had been designed around the Rotax 915 iS. Sort of like a Sling TSi but with super slick aerodynamics. It would of course need to drag along an even lighter airframe as well as less fuel and payload, but the engine alone accounts for almost 115 kg less weight and I expect an airframe built to mount a radically smaller engine would also be lighter in other ways, such as a lighter engine mount and other structures being lighter due to the rest being overall lighter, ie. the engine causing a weight-shedding spinn-off effect. Of course being limited by keeping it a realistic 3,5-4 place aircraft. Also, with the 915 one could get away with maybe a 120 litre fuel capacity?
I don’t think that would work, because planes don’t “scale down” well. The Rotax engines planes achieve good MPG because they displace much less air i.e. they have a small cockpit volume. With a 2 seater and enough room for a toothbrush you can do this. Especially if you massage the perf numbers so the speed is actually TAS and with the engine flat out, while the endurance is measured at a much slower speed 
Reducing engine power makes a plane useless rapidly, because the excess power (over what is needed to overcome drag) diminishes fast. I’d say the Panthera will really benefit from the move to the IO540.
Does a P2006 really do 150kt at a total of 34 litres per hour?
That won’t last long. The airworthiness for each aircraft entering E-EX category is established individually between the owner and an FAA DAR.
They must know this, so what are they thinking?
Epic were selling experimentals for years, and same with the Evolution, but it was always “51% owner participation” (you choose the instrument panel colour, etc) 
@Peter, that‘s really the key. The laws of physics still apply, especially drag and excess horsepower. All the RV‘s that go fast and far have 160-180hp+ for 2-seaters. The Diamond aircraft seem to have pretty much extracted the most that can be achieved with a combination of load, airflow, range, and power especially with the diesels. The older designs such as Mooney, Beechcraft, Socata are still very price-performance competitive for long-range travel because newer technology has such a high certification cost to amortize.
Peter wrote:
They must know this, so what are they thinking?
My guess would be they sold the first one in the US to somebody who could get it individually N-registered in E-EX after importation. This is similar to the procedure used for one of a kind custom built planes like for example these. Then, having bought the plane at a discounted price for taking on a commercial role, that person becomes a ‘dealer’ for purposes of publicizing the plane via magazine and website tests. The happiest possible face is put on the certification situation by saying the plane can be sold for registration in E-EX, with the hope that by the time interest is established, FAA certification will be completed. I think it’s a edgy game because the FAA will allow the charade to continue for a while, but if a manufacturer or distributor actually starts selling uncertified production aircraft to US consumers they will shut it down quickly.
The 51% rule applies to E-AB and given no owner involvement in manufacture the aircraft is not qualified for that type of C of A.
If the manufacturer were US-based I think FAA would have required the plane to be in E-R&D but since its from a foreign regulated manufacturer they have no ‘official’ understanding of where the plane came from, or that it’s intended for serial production. It’s just an individually owned uncertified-anywhere custom plane that came from somewhere basically undefined, similar in that way to foreign military aircraft, and from the point of view of being a ‘one-off’ also acceptably fits E-EX requirements.
Peter wrote:
Does a P2006 really do 150kt at a total of 34 litres per hour?
Yes, it does, although by then you’re deep in the yellow arc. Vno is 138kts, Vne 171kts. That said, you really have to pull the power way back to remain in the green, the thing accelerates surprisingly quickly once in level flight. Fuel flow is 9USg/hr for the two Rotax 912s combined. Fun airplane to fly!
IAS?
Yes
Peter wrote:
Does a P2006 really do 150kt at a total of 34 litres per hour?
Get a M20J (or M20F with speed mods) they do 145ias-150ias all the way to 8kft with 36L/h even with climb hertzel props and old airframe
If the manufacturer were US-based I think FAA would have required the plane to be in E-R&D but since its from a foreign regulated manufacturer they have no ‘official’ understanding of where the plane came from, or that it’s intended for serial production. It’s just an individually owned uncertified-anywhere custom plane that came from somewhere basically undefined, similar in that way to foreign military aircraft, and from the point of view of being a ‘one-off’ also acceptably fits E-EX requirements.
They could set up an authorised dealer in the US where the customer could participate in the required 51%, perhaps.
Is it possible to have such a facility outside the US?
Ibra wrote:
Get a M20J (or M20F with speed mods) they do 145ias-150ias all the way to 8kft with 36L/h even with climb hertzel props and old airframe
what has IAS got to do with this? A J will do 160KTAS, an F 150 KTAS with that fuel flow roughly. My C will do 150 KTAS run out full out.
