Planning a trip Hannover EDDV to Bornholm EKRN (with family, and risk management)

Yes I would fly it first on my own, at least on a sim – just like I used to do with my PPL qualifiyng cross country flights

Aveling wrote:

Something not mentioned so far is rehearsal.

That’s probably the best piece of advice in a thread that contains a lot of good stuff. I did exactly that when I started to fly, I had a particular family trip in sight, and step by step made myself confortable with it. I had an additional challenge in that having 3 kids, I needed to go from a 4 seater SEP to a 6 seater complex (Saratoga) so it took me 2 years :-) Also that trip made me realise I needed an IR, and taking an IR made me realise I “needed” a de-iced, radar equipped plane to get to 99% dispatch. And that took me another 4 years.

Just like you medewok, when I am offered to go somewhere, I start planning a GA trip there.
It happens at least a dozen time a year .Same thing, I try to manage risks well in advance.
I have an employer, and I can rarely get the level of time flexibility I would like (or I don’t have enough days off if you prefer )
I don’t have a family, so things are much simpler too.

The kind of strategy I am working on is :

• if the trip is unavoidable (your decision here), prepare a plan B right away. In most cases, non-refundable train tickets are very very cheap compared to the flying you are planning. Driving instead of flying is great because you don’t have any planning or PPR (ticket etc..).
• Decide of a date when you will choose between plan A (flying GA) and plan B (other way). You will still have a risk of canceling last minute so it must be part of the equation.
• Last part : decide ! Windy.com is my best tool for that as of now. It’s kind of a early go/no go. You only have a weather forecast so you need to take margins. My best bet is : if you think “I think I’m gonnna make it”, then drop it. You need to be sure you will make it. Because a forecast is just a forecast.

It’s not perfect, but I helps to keep the GA option open, which is nice for a pilot while keeping a good way out. Like in a flight in marginal weather, you want to keep a safe way out, even if it means diverting.

As an example, I planned last May to fly to Aurillac LFLW for a hiking thursday-sunday weekend with a friend (more unavoidable than it seems).
Plan A was a C152, plan B was my Peugeot
On wednesday evening, all models forecasted heat and GFS forecasted TS sprayed out over central France.
So I dropped plan A and took the car.
I can tell you I had regrets : I took 8 hours of driving instead of the 5 planned, and there was no TS over France on the way home of course
But there could have been TSs.

Hope it helps.
To gain self insurance, try a small day trip with the kids.
It will teach you more than doing the same trip alone in the plane (and will cost less, and get the family used to flying).
And follow the route via Denmark, 20NM is nothing compared to the stress of overflying cold water with your whole family on board.

MedEwok,

Flying the route before is a good idea to lower the stress and workload when doing the actual trip with the family on board.

Yes, that is what I meant. This is a route you can fly easily in a day with an FI or alone. And you can reherse both routes, direct and via the coastlines.

Fs X rehersals, I could write a book about. No, out of the box, it wonˆt do much. Pepped up with proper VFRscenery (Germany NOrtheast I suppose) and possibly a plane as close as possible to the one you are going to use, you can achieve a lot. First of all, you can time the flight with a proper flight plan, then real world WX and therefore reherse it in different weather situations. Secondly, the route, the more you fly it, will become second nature. and so on. Any simulator including FSX is only as good as the purpose it is put to.

As for the 2nd idea you had, absolutely as well. Once you have transitioned to the airplane in which you will be doing the trip in, take your family on a shorter trip between two places you know inside out. This will help them to know what to expect on The Day as well as give you an idea how they behave on board.

Other than that, I am of the opinion that pilots who canˆt master this route and fly it safe have a deficiency in their training. Unfortunately, there are many who do, but that can be corrected. Having a PPL in their pocket does not mean flying with an FI on board is now unlawful… so if there is a good FI or even an experienced pilot who can come alog for the rehersal and give you insights, it will help you on the day.

Generally however I don’t think one needs an FI on board after training for trips where there is nothing completely new to the pilot, and except for the border crossing there is nothing here as far as I noticed.

Here in the UK, the overwhelming probability is that once you have flown further than this

you know more about “European touring” than almost any FI

I’m sure you can do it, but it also depends on your wife. To go with a 50hr pilot, two small kids in a rental plane over the Baltic, she must have some serious tolerance for risk. Talk it over, so that there are no surprises.

My kids didn’t fly until 2-3 years old, when they were old enough to keep headphones on. Before that they pulled them off.

I would suggest not to simulate the trip. Go yourself there and back a week before. You’ll be much more confident.
I’ve been to Ronne this year with wife and two kids. It’s a friendly airport. As easy to get in/out as it can get on a controlled airfield.

With the experience I have now, I would let it go and take the ferry. Piston plane is no place for small kids. Pro crew at the controls is better than daddy.
But I understand the need that you have. I was exactly the same. Good luck :-)

This may be already earlier in this thread, but do pick really nice wx for the family trip.

As many have posted here previously (and yes I know this sounds sexist etc but those are the numbers, like it or not) many wives never flew again after just one scary experience. As a passenger you just don’t have the “investment” which we pilots have (via the long hassle of getting a PPL, medical, keeping all the papers valid, etc) so giving it up is a really easy option. She knows you won’t leave because of that And then you have lost potentially your best flying partner, as well as possibly getting banned from taking the kids up (another very common occurence) until they are old enough to decide for themselves. You then join the endless ranks of men with a PPL who fly alone, or fly with the same bunch of grumpy old mates to the same old places. A caricature for sure, but you get my drift

The other standard advice includes

• don’t discuss crashes – even if your wife has a PhD, it will corrode her confidence
• be confident as a pilot – as above

Quite sad if true, actually.

That is just how the business of PPL training runs. Sure the PPL would be more fun if one did fun trips, and you would come out a better pilot, but it would cost 20k instead of 10k.