Dear all,
Still a newbie at flying in Euroland. I’m thinking of going to Chambéry tomorrow – if I file the attached IFR route, what is the probability of getting a shortcut in the air? I tried all kind of manual, shorter routes but they were all rejected. What is in the screenshot is what rocketroute gave me via the AutoRoute feature.
The other option is to fly VFR but I’m not sure how high the cloud cover will extend tomorrow (any crash course on that would be very appreciated btw). And of course there is always the possibility of leaving on Monday ..
Thanks !
William
(I read the thread about last year’s TB20 crash in that general area and I don’t really feel like scud running. So it is either VFR-over-the-top or IFR)
I’ve never flown a filed route. They’ll usually be good about shortcuts but it’s always worth telling them you’re ok in venturing in uncontrolled airspace if that allows more direct routing.
Examples
Thanks Noe. I’m wondering if the fact that the flight crosses the Swiss border changes anything. I guess that there is one straightforward way to find out :-)
Generally, when you get those very odd routings, it is because you were too restrictive with your settings regarding preferred and min/max altitudes. Have you played with those settings? What does autorouter say? I don’t like such extreme detours in my filed flightplan.
In any case, the weather is going to be interesting tomorrow in that area. Lots of cloud, rain and lowish freezing levels. I’m staying in Italy until Monday.
It’s also possible that in the alps they don’t let you on certain routes due to minimum IFR altitudes for obstacle clearance. If you are VMC, you can tell them that you are and will assume own terrain separation.
@boscomantico autorouter gives a slightly better route (here it is plotted in rocketroute) :
It also offers a shortcut assuming that the first leg can be fly VFR. But as you said, weather will be the determining factor tomorrow.
Noe: they let you descend below MOCA / OROCA when VMC?
@Noe, that route you got from the autorouter for LFPN-LFOP is due to some idiosyncrasy of the autorouter. IIUC what Achim has explained to me previously, it will always prefer routes with SID/STAR and ignore perfectly good routes w/o.
If you take a look at the RAD document Appendix 5: Airport Connectivity (ARR tab – and look for LFOP) you’ll see you can arrive from ELBOX. So now the trick is to find a route from LFPN to ELBOX, but that’s easy:
LFPN EVX6N EVX N160 EVRUK H20 ELBOX LFOP
Concerning @wleferrand’s route from LFSM to LFFE this is what the autorouter gave me with an altitude range 4000’-FL190
LFSM N0182F120 BASUD Z55 ROTOS Z669 VADAR/N0179F110 Y58 SPR/N0175F090 Y58 GVA/N0173F080 Y58 SALEV LFLE
175 NM
I do not know the area, so I do not know what to expect but I suspect getting any substantial shortcut may be difficult.
EuroFPL gave me the same route FL140:
LFSE BASUD Z55 ROTOS Z669 VADAR Y58 SALEV LFLE
175 NM
PS: I now see you already found that same route…
PPS: EVX6N may not exist anymore and have been replaced with EVX8N… but it is the same.
IIUC what Achim has explained to me previously, it will always prefer routes with SID/STAR and ignore perfectly good routes w/o.
autorouter gives you all solutions but SID/STAR solutions appear at the top because they have a clear and unambiguous path to the approach while other solutions don‘t. If you are comfortable with one of the others, just choose it.
achimha wrote:
autorouter gives you all solutions
OK. Indeed. But surprisingly I got
LFPN EVX N160 EVRUK DCT LARDU DCT PEXIR DCT ELBOX LFOP
(107 NM)
as opposed to
LFPN EVX N160 EVRUK H20 ELBOX LFOP
which is 95 NM.
Anyway. That was not the subject.
