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Ramp check at LDVA, and signoff for a preflight check

Today I had ramp check at my base airfield LDVA prior to my proficiency check flight for MEP ME/IR extension. I had all usual stuff (licence, medical, aircraft documents, etc.) plus documents related to flight (briefing from Autorouter, approach plates) but they had one finding – missing (my) signatures for preflight checks in aircraft logbook. However, each flight is recorded in this logbook and signed (by me). And they told me “by part … whatever blah blah … you’re obliged to confirm execution of preflight check for every flight”, claiming that missing signature was big stuff. Do you somehow sign off each preflight check in your aircraft documents? I’ll refrain from commenting our CAA (150 employees for less than 150 flying aircrafts in whole country).

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

I´ve never done that. Where would you sign it? I would certainly have asked those guys to show me the relevant regulation.

EDFZ

Maybe it pertains to this thread?
https://www.euroga.org/forums/flying/4922-easa-journey-log-requirements

In commercial ops there is a techlog and after line maintenance is done ✅ the pic signs and accepts the aircraft (date, time, signature). Haven’t heard of his for NCO though and personally never done it.

CB IR Instruction
LOWG, LOWW

Yes, did that for commercial ops, but not required for private ops IMHO.

EGNS

Emir wrote:

by part … whatever blah blah … you’re obliged to confirm execution of preflight check for every flight

Who knows ? These regulations have changed at least 3 times for SEPs alone since I got my PPL. Today there are 4 different regulations I have to satisfy depending on different stuff.

When I got my PPL we had daily checks that had to be signed. Preflight was done in principle before each flight, but never signed. This changed at some point in time. This daily check was removed. Instead the preflight had to be signed for each flight (probably EASA/JAR stuff). Now, preflight (signed or otherwise) for each flight, when taken literally, is complete nonsense when towing gliders for instance, and many other types of flying. When towing gliders we do a daily check as before, same as the gliders. Daily check is more thorough than a preflight. It involves taking out the tow line in it’s entire length, inspecting every cm of it and so on. You won’t do that before every flight on a preflight.

The only thing that makes sense is a daily check. This may be signed, I am used to signing it in the book from the beginning. Preflight has to be much more adaptable to the actual circumstance and operation, but signing it, is more like signing you have tied your shoe laces. A daily check is part of the maintenance, and doesn’t have to be done by the pilot. A pre-flight is part of the flight and is done by the pilot. I practice this is what I do. Daily check and more adaptable pre-flights that spans from nothing to the full tire kicking procedure. But I sign wherever I am “supposed” to sign to satisfy the logic of bureaucracy

ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Didnt do this in the beginning, but recently our local maintenance shop got apparently clear instructions by the certifying authorities:
he has to notify authorities, if he finds missing PFC entries in the logbooks of the planes he works on / releases to service.

He is a practical and reasonable guy and will make you aware of missing signatures beforehand, but equally does not want trouble – like a check by authorities that he has logbooks in his office without PFCs entries and not having notified that…

Stupid rule imho but easy to comply with.
Entered with the rest. Done.

...
EDM_, Germany

Actually I do, because my original CAMO provided me with a form to log each flight (tach, block and flight times, plus fuel and oil amounts). There is also a line where I confirm preflight checks. I actually find the format useful and continue using it. It is the same form used for commercial ops.

The ramp check people were nitpicking. As far as I am concerned, your signature is on the throttle when you make the takeoff run (the signature by itself is meaningless). An example of a regulator who has lost sight of the reason for his/her existence, especially in regards to private flying.

Last Edited by WhiskeyPapa at 26 Aug 07:41
Tököl LHTL

Emir wrote:

150 employees for less than 150 flying aircrafts in whole country

Not bad, I was told by my avionics guy that it was four to one in France. I don’t believe this, but they are many. According to Wikipedia :

11,393 agents [-1.05% compared to 2014] broken down as follows with the [average gross monthly salary with bonuses excluding functional jobs: figures from the 2015 Social Balance Sheet]:

    138 engineers of bridges, waters and forests (IPEF) [9 145 €]
    29 civil administrators [8,204 €]
    699 Civil Engineering Studies and Exploration Engineers (IEEAC) [€ 6,198]
    262 state administrative attachés [5,321 €]
    422 civil aviation administration assistants (ASAAC) [€ 4,088]
    816 civil aviation administrative assistants (ADAAC) [3,345 €]
    445 contract agents
    94 public works engineers of the State (ITPE) [4,858 €]
    206 senior technicians of sustainable development (TSDD) [3,383 €]
    86 workers parks and workshops (OPA)
    43 other officers from the Ministry of Sustainable Development
    32 medico-social staff (nurses, social workers …)
    4,069 Air Navigation Control Engineers (ICNA) [€ 7,602]
    1,463 Electronic Engineers in Aviation Safety Systems (IESSA) [€ 6,314] 13,14
    1,826 senior technicians in civil aviation studies and operations (TSEEAC) [€ 4,695]
    678 State Workers (EO)
    119 other

Simon

ch.ess wrote:

Didnt do this in the beginning, but recently our local maintenance shop got apparently clear instructions by the certifying authorities:
he has to notify authorities, if he finds missing PFC entries in the logbooks of the planes he works on / releases to service.

Entries are one thing, signatures another. Journey log books for SE-reg aircraft are supplied by the Swedish CAA, so they should include everything the CAA wants. There is a place to put the name of the person doing the check, but no place for a signature. Indeed, we never sign pre-flight checks. Last year the CAA did a full review of one our club aircraft and had no complaints about missing signatures for pre-flight checks. (They did complain about a few other very minor things, so don’t think they would just have let it slip.)

On the other hand, we sign each flight as PIC and it is possible that this signature is taken to include that a pre-flight check was done by the named person.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Is anybody able to show the paragraph requiring this signature in non-commercial ops?

EDFZ
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