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Ramp check at LDVA, and signoff for a preflight check

Which bit supports this?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I remember when I rented an airplane at a certain club in a certain country I had to sign-off that I completed pre-flight check before I even went to the aircraft. A bit fishy but I guess they were scared of this event happening.

However, I never did anything like this anywhere in Sweden. Never heard of anyone doing it either.

Last Edited by Dimme at 27 Aug 12:44
ESME, ESMS

LeSving wrote:


In their defense, try to read EASA regulations yourself

It’s certainly true that administrative incompetence and general confusion can be created by inward looking authors of complex regulation, those who have forgotten that their little world is a side show for normal people trying to do something more useful. The same could be said for authors of consumer software, but at least in that case there is a market to put some pressure on them to perform!

Last Edited by Silvaire at 27 Aug 14:58

I know of a major airliner getting a finding from a SAFA check because the number of NOTAMs didn’t match. They were operating a A320 and the missing NOTAM? No avgas was available…

That is however not GA related; the Govt can hit an AOC operation over any noncompliance with their CAA approved ops manual. If the manual requires them to wear yellow underpants…

GA private flying regs are elsewhere, and I really would like to see the reference for post #1 being a legit requirement.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I never signed anything in my logbook, nor did anyone else do far. Completely nonsensical.

Low-hours pilot
EDVM Hildesheim, Germany

I never heard about such a requirement for non-commercial flying. I have, however, many times heard about, and experienced myself, non-flying officials making up strict rules out of nowhere.

Last Edited by huv at 28 Aug 18:19
huv
EKRK, Denmark

I don’t really see how commercial/private makes any difference here. There may be differences between certified and not certified but maybe not. Objectively a preflight (or daily check) is done to assure the aircraft is airworthy. There is no other reason to do it. Airworthiness is supposed to be documented, and a signature or initials are the simplest way this can be done.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway
I don’t really see how commercial/private makes any difference here.

The regulations. If you don’t see it, I recommend you look more carefully.

Part M.A.306 “Technical Log System” says

(a) for CAT, commercial specialised operations and commercial ATO operations …. the operator shall use a technical log system …

The remainder of M.A.306 does not say anything about signatures for pre-flight checks, but the AMC requires it, as was already pointed out.

Objectively a preflight (or daily check) is done to assure the aircraft is airworthy.

Of course. Part M.A.301 #1, with a very helpful AMC that explains what a pre-flight check is, just in case somebody forgot.

LeSving wrote:

Airworthiness is supposed to be documented

Can you perhaps point us to the regulation that specifies that everything in general has to be documented? M.A.305 “Aircraft continuing airworthiness record system” makes specific requirements on what these records are supposed to contain, a documentation of pre-flight checks other than in the M.A.306 tech log is not on that list,.

Biggin Hill

Cobalt wrote:

a documentation of pre-flight checks other than in the M.A.306 tech log is not on that list,.

That’s not my fault But if you think instead of just quoting regulations, why do you perform a preflight? And if you haven’t documented it, what makes the airplane airworthy?

I’m not for more regulations and more bureaucracy. As I said earlier, I sign wherever I am supposed to sign, if for no other reason than to follow the logic of bureaucracy.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

When I think I come to the following conclusions:
- I perform a preflight to be as safe as possible before I board the plane. I would do it regardless of any regulation.
- Documenting it doesn‘t make the plane more airworthy than before.
- Doing a preflight is only a very small part of really determining the airworthiness of an aircraft – that is what the annual is for.
- Simply accepting every bullshit is what leads us into more and more nonsense and regulations that have never been proven to be effective or usefull
- Till today I missed the logic of bureaucracy, but that might come someday

Just my 2 cents …

Last Edited by Sir_Percy at 28 Aug 20:20
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