Incidentally, before starting this thread I ran a short google search and came across this discussion:
https://www.euroga.org/forums/flying/2462-vrps-mandatory-for-vfr
There, we were discussing whether VRPs are mandatory – as in: Are you required to use them?
I don’t want to repeat that discussion, but I had a similar discussion with some German pilots the other day whether it is mandatory to report them if you are overhead. Based on what I learned and understood (UK book theory, US practical training), it is not. Based on what they learned (German book theory, German practical training), it is. The scenario is that you’re flying towards a control zone and have a clearance to enter via, say, Romeo – a Visual Reporting Point. With that clearance, I would fly via Romeo and enter the control zone – in contrast to “enter control zone via Romeo, report Romeo next”, in which case I would report Romeo. After being told off by one controller for NOT reporting Romeo without him specifically asking me to do so, the other German pilots I spoke with later said “Well, sure, these are mandatory reporting points.”
I was not aware (and think it was not covered in UK theory, but could be my mistake) of the difference between mandatory and non-mandatory VRPs plus the fact that this is marked on the chart. It took me a while to find non-mandatory ones, but indeed, looking at Rotterdam EHRD, I find that Tango is mandatory, while Sierra is not
How do you handle this in practice? Were you aware of this difference?
Referring to Germany:
If the TWR controller says “report Romeo” it is quite clear in any case – he wants you to report Romeo. Irrespective of what type of reporting point it is.
If the TWR Controller says “enter control zone via Romeo”, you also need to report Romeo, as it is indeed a mandatory reporting point (see the VAC charts, in Germany these points are usually represented as a circle with a SOLID triangle in it)
If however the controller says “enter control zone and report on downwind” you of course don’t have to report Romeo, since he gave you a “next report instruction” which is further “downstream”.
This should actually apply internationally.
But yes, there are sometimes wordings by TWR controllers which are a little unclear on this regard.
If you really are in doubt – better make one report more rather than one report less.
Funny you’re answering first, @boscomantico, as the telling-off that I got was in .. EDHL (and Lima) 
boscomantico wrote:
If the TWR Controller says “enter control zone via Romeo”, you also need to report Romeo, as it is indeed a mandatory reporting point (see the VAC charts, in Germany these points are usually represented as a circle with a SOLID triangle in it)
If however the controller says “enter control zone and report on downwind” you of course don’t have to report Romeo, since he gave you a “next report instruction” which is further “downstream”.
That is exactly how I understand it now and will apply in the future.
Just not sure how other countries handle this – especially as I do think that differentiation was not covered in my UK theory course and I just now happened to come across this.
boscomantico wrote:
(see the VAC charts, in Germany these points are usually represented as a circle with a SOLID triangle in it)
Yep, and SkyDemon shows the mandatory ones as blue – and with an attribute: “Mandatory: Yes” when you hover over them (with your mouse… Hovering over the actual VRP with your aircraft will just confuse ATC, not recommended). The non-mandatory ones are white. This is using the standard “SkyDemon 1” chart theme.
Can you recall the radio exchange with Luebeck TWR up to that point?
If he just said “enter control zone via Lima”, then of course you have to report when reaching it. (He does not have to specifically say “report Romeo” if it’s designated as a mandatory reporting point.)
Curious what made you think you wouldn’t have to….
I can’t believe that this – in case of a mandatory reporting point – would be any different in another country…
boscomantico wrote:
Can you recall the radio Exchange with Luebeck TWR up to that point?If he just said “enter control zone via Lima”, then of course you have to report when reaching it. (He does not have to specifically say “report Romeo” if it’s designated as a mandatory reporting point.)
Yes – that is what he said.
boscomantico wrote:
Curious what made you think you wouldn’t have to….
First and foremost, that my understanding was different up to that point (either based on the training I had or a misconception from my side). My understanding was that if I’m cleared to enter already, I do not need to load the frequency with an additional report, unless specified – i.e. my understanding of the default, in case no other instructions are given, was flawed.
Then, I guess it took me some years to figure out because a) many controllers WILL mention “report XY next” anyway, so the situation does not arise very often and b) I guess some controllers will not bother with some lesson as in “you should have done this and that” if they don’t consider the issue at hand important enough…
Patrick wrote:
Just not sure how other countries handle this
I have always used them exactly like the “German way”. I have never seen any description of what mandatory and non-mandatory actually mean though.
I can’t speak for Germany but have never heard of VRP reporting being mandatory. My understanding – as per the other thread – is simply that ATC are entitled to send a VFR flight to a VRP and its responsibility ends there, regardless of whether the VRP can be located
The problem is that when ATC clear you to a VRP, in CAS, that is your clearance limit, so unless you are a helicopter fed via a fuel hose from a huge fuel tank on the ground, your best plan is to report at that VRP so you can get a further clearance
It could indeed be a peculiartity of the UK. Remember you call these VRPs, where the R stands for reference. In Germany for example, these are called “VFR reporting points”. Hence, when you are instructed to fly to point xy, and it’s a mandatory reporting point, it is implied that you must report it when reaching, even if the controller did not specifically add “report xy”. Italy and France are the same.
Must UK controllers always add the “report xy” after they have sent you to the VRP xy AND they want you to report when reaching it?
Peter wrote:
The problem is that when ATC clear you to a VRP, in CAS, that is your clearance limit, so unless you are a helicopter fed via a fuel hose from a huge fuel tank on the ground, your best plan is to report at that VRP so you can get a further clearance
It doesn’t work like that. You are typically cleared inbound or outbound of the TMA via some reporting point(s). Meaning you are cleared to fly in and out of the TMA “through” the points. The points are part of the route, not the end or start. As for non-mandatory reporting points, they are always usually outside the TMA. It’s not clear to me what kind of function they have, other than as defined points of reporting and asking for clearance when entering the TMA.
I’m going back a long time (25 years or so) when the UK decided to change from Reporting to Reference as there had been a number of really close calls over VRPs. There was some guidance at the time which basically said that pilots should not aim to fly directly over VRPs.
