Restoration of a 1983 Socata TB20 Trinidad

Stickandrudderman wrote:

Who would know if I (assuming it was me that bought this ’plane) dismantled the landing gear myself, stripped, cleaned repainted and reassembled using new bearings/bushes where necessary?

If you have the skills to do it probably nobody apart just about everyone here who has now seen what that gear looks like :)

But you are right, a lot of stuff can be done by the owner without anyone taking note. replacing rusted screws for instance in non critical areas. Covering blank spaces in the paint with airplane paint to avoid water getting to it. Anything optically as long as it doesn’t interfere with airworthiness.

Best thing for Alex would be a savvy mechanic at his homebase where he could do some parts of the job with him having a watchful eye and a rendering help where needed.

BTW AFAIK painting is “cosmetic” and within pilot maintenance privileges. It is the subsequent release to service which may or may not be.

If I lived in Romania I would not be bringing the plane to England to get that kind of work done on it. There is so much talent, at such reasonable rates in Czech/Hungary/Germany/Romania that I would investigate first.

The paint job, totally, will be more in the region of 25k! That is why I am saying: Why. Your plane is in a much better shape regarding paint (with some local exceptions) than quite a lot of others I know. If you WANT to repaint, ok, that is one bit, but necessary? I don´t think so, not at this stage at least.

But I agree with William, what you need is a good maintenance facility within maybe 2 flight hours of you. The gear job is not so complex that a well trained organisation can not do it. Granted, in Germany the TB20 was very popular so there are more shops who know how to handle one than south of the Alps, but there must be TB savvy organisations in your region as well. I recall that someone in Croatia had a TB20? Was it Emir?

Mooney_Driver wrote:

Best thing for Alex would be a savvy mechanic at his homebase where he could do some parts of the job with him having a watchful eye and a rendering help where needed

I agree, and if it wasn’t already clear I meant to imply that in my other post on this aircraft. Unless an owner can find a shop using very cheap labor (possibly less qualified and very likely less attentive than the owner) in conjunction with higher paid mechanics, this kind of labor intensive ‘disassemble, strip, blast, rebush, repaint and reassemble’ work can get very, very expensive when the owner hands over the plane to others and waits for the bill.

Peter wrote:

BTW AFAIK painting is “cosmetic” and within pilot maintenance privileges. It is the subsequent release to service which may or may not be

Notwithstanding that the term was probably used casually here, would an ‘release to service’ actually be required for a landing gear overhaul under EASA regs? Or could an individual EASA mechanic (under Part 66? I’m not an expert) perform and independently document his work on this TB20?

On certified N-registered planes like Peters and mine, work like this would be performed and/or subsequently documented in the aircraft maintenance logbook by an independently regulated A&P mechanic, within his individual regulated scope, with no other paperwork. Like most aircraft maintenance this would not require a post-repair airworthiness inspection, the non-IA A&P is likely not authorized to perform those inspections and the formal airworthiness status of the aircraft would never be affected from beginning to end. Therefore I think use of the phrase ‘release to service’ would be inappropriate for N-registered planes. I’m actually not sure if that term has been even been used in my plane’s maintenance records by any A&P mechanic, IA or not. I think it’s confined to work mandatorily performed by a repair station, propeller overhauls being a good example.

Why does it matter IMHO? Using terms like ‘release to service’ even when they may not apply encourages the false perception that an (e.g. IA or repair station) airworthiness inspection is required after any repair a non-IA certificated mechanic independently performs on a plane. If God forbid that became true it would be a nightmarish erosion of A&P and aircraft owner rights. As with related issues like issuing FAA 8130s for parts (inappropriate and unnecessary for private light aircraft, typically no parts paperwork is required) I think building a perception of unnecessary requirements can be a slippery slope.

this kind of labor intensive ‘disassemble, strip, blast, rebush, repaint and reassemble’ work can get very, very expensive when the owner hands over the plane to others and waits for the bill.

Buy that man a beer

If that was my aeroplane I’d drop the gear off it, and have all that stripped and repainted. I’d flat and paint the aeroplane but not bare metal it. I’d change all the hardware causing you concern. Get a good man on it at 35-40 usd per hour for a top class technician. Do it locally.

Ordering parts is not an issue. Most people use Troyes Aviation in France. They don’t keep stock (nobody does) and they order back to back from the factory in Tarbes. They ship worldwide.

You need the CD with the MM and the IPC. The last one that contains updates is about 2005 and the Feb 2006 CD is “out in the wild”

The plane in question is N-reg so it is as per Silvaire’s post above. You need to do the work by or under the supervision of an A&P. The logbook entry covering the work is the “release to service” in that, AIUI, you do need that logbook entry to fly the plane afterwards. There is a fair number of A&Ps around. You need an A&P/IA only for the Annual.

Any automotive paint shop could clean up strip and paint the landing gear. You need a mechanic with a brain (not universal!) to work out where the play is and fix that.

Regarding painting the aircraft, it is important to use a shop for which you can get some references from aviation customers. This may surprise some but there are some really bad shops out there. Days after EuroGA started in 2012, we got a glowing report on a paint shop in Lithuania. It was so positive we thought it was an advert. It is still posted there somewhere… A year or so later the plane ended up advertised for sale, as a “project aircraft” i.e. worth scrap unless done all again. The paint peeled off, the upholstery was useless (quite possibly done in the wrong material; no fire certificate) and illegal. The guy lost 50-100k. Actually many people have been caught by the upholstery catch and had to pay the ~5-10k again. You might think only an idiot could do a paint job which peels off in a year but I met a guy with a brand new Aston Martin DB9 on which the paint bubbled up within a year!

With any restoration – house or aircraft – there are two general approaches. Bit-by-bit, or all in one go.

If you do it all in one go, the thing will be sit on the ground for a long time, and you will repeat the experience you had with your cost estimate: everything will take longer than expected. Even pros get that wrong. Ask Adam.

Or you do it bit-by-bit, focusing on items that may be unsafe or cause further damage – which in your case appears to be the control play and the landing gear – and get something else done around the annual, or in the next two winters or other periods where you wouldn’t fly that much.

All depends on what you really want. How does it compare what you would fly in the 0.5-2 years the TB sits on the ground? Do you currently rent? Are the rentals in any better shape? If not, you lose nothing by doing it bit by bit.

Having done two project planes, at first glance this looks like a good project plane. My last one the Bonanza I just adore finally after 4 years I can say it looks amazing (to me and is one of the best in Europe) even tough its build in 1966. The avionics in your TB + A/P and the TKS systems is already the price for the airplane. I think you set the priorities right. Flight controls play, landing gear and of course the engine. I didn’t do any of the work myself but if you subcontract you better make sure you are very knowledgeable and be prepared to study maintenance manuals of your aircraft and know all the critical data points. All depends if you TRUST your subcontracted partners and make sure you plan and discuss everything in advance with an IA you know… For this bird I would take it step by step depending on criticality and not cosmetics. I would recommend to find a local solution where you can personally stay on top of things when working on the critical parts, then dumping it in a remote (cheap) place (where they don’t read the maintenance manuals) and get some surprises afterwards . As with a lot of things in life building a relationship with your IA and subcontracted partners is crucial. What is very important make sure your bird can stay immobilized on jacks for a prolonged period of time in a secure dry environment when pulling the struts. I recently redid the complete landing gear of my bonanza, including replacing all seals, repaint etc….Make sure the rigging is correct before dissembling anything, make loads of pictures it will save you time when putting everything back together after painting. When going for a project plane the type is important. Would I choose a French design…? The difference between a Beech and TB20 e.g. is that nothing a Beech is flimsy all sheet metal is decently riveted old school and honestly I think one of the best build GA aircraft ever… I know I won’t make myself popular with this statement. But looking at the gear and air frame materials used of Bo and TB, well no further comment…What always surprises me though I am an avionics guy people spent loads of money on new avionics. Two GPSss, Screens, state of the art engine monitors etc (in this case its your win and adds a lot to the value of the aircraft )..but often is completely neglected, the air frame, engine. The first thing I did on my old Bonanza after the engine was assessed was installation of a complete new baffle kit to reduce the CHT’s increase cooling during climb….Go for it once you have the things sorted out you will have learned a lot and appreciate your aircraft even more…take a ZEN approach… it helps : been there don that….