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Seneca HB-LSD down in Basel

Indeed, The localiser centreline (or RNAV) doesn’t lie. One should be crosschecking until at least DA and if there is a discrepancy it should be an almost instantaneous decision. There was a discussion some time back regarding diving at the runway at the end of an instrument approach; this chap appears to have done exactly that, towards the wrong lights.

Fly safely
Various UK. Operate throughout Europe and Middle East, United Kingdom

JohnR wrote:

I have always wondered why if you have an EASA IR you automatically have night privileges and don’t need to do the compulsory night landings that a VFR pilot must do every year to remain current.

Don’t try to take from us the one piece of regulation that is more permissive than the US ;).

With an IR, flying at night is very similar to flying in IMC (provided you have an IAP). The only different bit is really in the flare – and personally never really found much of an issue with it, asides from the occasional longer landing when a bit of power is added after a slightly high flare.

Dave_Phillips wrote:

There was a discussion some time back regarding diving at the runway at the end of an instrument approach;

There was also a discussion about continuing to monitor the ILS after DH in poor vis and you seemed to be against that. It might have saved this guy.

EGKB Biggin Hill

Noe wrote:

Don’t try to take from us the one piece of regulation that is more permissive than the US ;).

Yes I agree, be careful what you wish for );

What this report has highlighted for me is the need to do some night IFR training. I fly so little at night compared to daytime IFR. Just need to find someone who will do it at night where I am based.

EGBW, United Kingdom

There can be other factors for spatial disorientation with IFR at night that aren’t present during the day.

I did a good chunk of my (FAA) IR training at night. One incident I’ll always remember is the night my safety pilot decided to add some “realistic distractions” when I was flying the ILS into KGLS/Galveston Scholes. I was getting near the checkride and quite proud of how I could make the localiser and glideslope needles remain in nicely centred all the way down to the decision height. My safety pilot however, who is slightly portly, decided to move the seat from the front of its travel to the rear, making a small but noticeable change in the trim whenever I got the GS centred…

On the ILS to runway 13, at about 450 feet or so you start to cross the causeway that goes to Galveston island, a 6 lane freeway with streetlights and often a reasonable amount of traffic. I just caught sight of the lights of the causeway in the corner of the windscreen the hood never quite properly blocks, and it did so at about a 70 degree angle, and suddenly my entire being decided I was in a 70 degree bank. The sudden and almost overpowering feeling of spatial disorientation was startling, to say the least. I did fight through this sudden and powerful feeling to complete the approach, however it did make me understand how these loss of control accidents happen especially at night.

Last Edited by alioth at 26 Oct 09:41
Andreas IOM

Timothy wrote:

There was also a discussion about continuing to monitor the ILS after DH in poor vis and you seemed to be against that. It might have saved this guy.

No, I was against descending below DA without the required visual references.

Fly safely
Various UK. Operate throughout Europe and Middle East, United Kingdom

Dave_Phillips wrote:

No, I was against descending below DA without the required visual references.

Ah. That was a misunderstanding then. I was advocating ensuring that you have the minimum required visual references at DA, but recognising that their value might be limited and that the ILS (or LPV) be used to ensure that you remained (particularly) on the slope/glidepath until the visual picture is clearer.

EGKB Biggin Hill

Peter wrote:

compulsory night landings that a VFR pilot must do every year

Are you certain this is correct Peter?

UK, United Kingdom

To carry passengers, during night flying.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

At night especially one would normally fly an ILS on the autopilot, all the way down to the DH, and hopefully the scene should be “clean” by then…

I’m always happy to hand-fly approaches regardless the conditions. Especially after having problems few times in the past in final phase of the approach:
- once GNS530 in TB20 died when I was on ILS approach to LYBE in IMC (at 1200 ft AGL with OVC008 and DH 200 ft) – I was caught staring out and I had to switch to LOC approach (no GS on 2nd radio), set DME to 2nd radio and check distance against altitude, simply I was too lulled which doesn’t happen when hand flying.
- twice KAP140 quitted while in icing IMC at approach to LQSA (at approximately 1500 ft AGL with BKN006 and DH 450 ft) – I was fast to react but again I wasn’t happy with the level of concentration I had at the moment of incident.

Last weekend returning from Spain I had OVC010 at LDZA at night. And while I know it’s not the same as flying all the way to DH, it was nice opportunity to practice in real conditions.

Last Edited by Emir at 26 Oct 12:22
LDZA LDVA, Croatia
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