Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Spoofing ILS ADS-B and TCAS

These two videos are doing the rounds of social media…

This one is a good description of how ILS works. The vulnerability discussion can be found around 7:40 onwards. There is nothing there which one could not work out, and it omits to mention that ILS systems are monitored (although the monitoring is only near the runway AFAIK).

ADS-B starts around 13:20. Well, ADS-B has zero security and anybody can generate fake ADS-B packets. At 15:40 it states that ADS-B is used for traffic avoidance; I don’t think that’s true for airliners although obviously there is a push to sell that mode into GA. Around 17:20 it correctly mentions that one can work out who is having a business meeting where, using FR24 etc



The basic lesson is that when flying an ILS you don’t just blindly let the plane fly. You should be checking that the right altitude etc is reached at the right DME, etc.

This one covers a similar ground but takes the view that ILS spoofing is actually difficult to do without the pilot seeing the nav flags popping in and out. TCAS is however relatively easy to spoof.



Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

This one covers a similar ground but takes the view that ILS spoofing is actually difficult to do without the pilot seeing the nav flags popping in and out.

Oh no, and there was me all this time thinking that this was so very realistic…



Yippie-ky-aey Mother…yes, well…um sorry…

Last Edited by skydriller at 24 Aug 05:12

Peter wrote:

At 15:40 it states that ADS-B is used for traffic avoidance;

That is not correct, it is used for ATC Surveillance. The FAA has approved ADS-B In for Enhanced Visual Acquisition, but pilots are required to see the target to visually avoid it. Only TCAS provides for RA.

Even the Avidyne TAS systems include this statement in their Pilot Guide:

Caution: Federal Regulations state, “When an ATC clearance has been obtained, no pilot in command may deviate from that clearance unless an amended clearance is obtained, an emergency exists, or the deviation is in response to a traffic alert and collision avoidance system resolution advisory.” Avidyne TAS 6XX TAS systems do not provide resolution advisories and should not be used as the sole basis for deviating from an ATC clearance.

My GDL88 ADS-B Out/In system lists this limitation:

2.6 Traffic Alerting
Traffic alerting is an aid to visual acquisition and may not be used as the sole basis for aircraft maneuvering.
KUZA, United States

That may indeed be written but everybody around here is using it for avoidance maneuvers. Especially when one sees how many of the “velcro attached gizmos” report only distance and relative altitude, no bearing. I always use my TAS605 for active avoidance, because even with 2 or 3 people looking out, most targets are never spotted visually, so if something is conflicting, one can’t just sit there and hope….

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

I always use my TAS605 for active avoidance, because even with 2 or 3 people looking out, most targets are never spotted visually, so if something is conflicting, one can’t just sit there and hope….

How that works? you fly opposite heading? or 90deg away?

I tend to rely on altitude data for avoidance, it’s easy to get +/-500ft or +/-1000ft vs target transponder altitude while keeping my heading and keep looking ahead

Same, I always managed to avoid conflict but I rarely managed to spot the guys visually by turning my head back, left/right but anyway I don’t care as long as what is ahead is clear (maybe only applicable as I fly at 150kts )

Last Edited by Ibra at 24 Aug 14:00
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Depends. Climb if CAS not an issue, otherwise turn. Prob99 the other guy has not seen me In an extreme case turn away and do a 360 orbit.

I think there are good reasons why these systems are not spoofed. ILS is probably harder than it seems, due largely to the signal monitoring, and most vandals being thick as a plank. And spoofing ADS-B will be pointless because nobody – outside the US, perhaps – is using it for anything serious

It’s always been trivial to do windups by mounting a Mode S box, with the ID of somebody you don’t like, on a model plane… but we don’t seem to hear of it happening.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

but we don’t seem to hear of it happening.

Probably because it won’t fool anyone, and it’s too easy to get caught. It won’t fool anyone because the distance and speed of a model plane will generally be too low, and would (hopefully) be noted in the MOR that the aircraft appeared to be flying unusually slowly/go an unusually short distance.

Now let’s suppose someone does it with full scale, they fly to a field somewhere, reprogram their transponder (which is trivially easy to do) with your Mode-S id, then fly right through Stansted’s airspace or something. You get the nastygram from the CAA, look at your log book and…hold on, I wasn’t flying then. Shoreham can of course back you up because their logs show you weren’t flying.

If you were flying, you can say “Actually, I was flying through Wales (or wherever) on that date and time” and again, this can be confirmed. Other things too, like you don’t generally fly your TB out of random fields.

Andreas IOM

That’s all true but in the situation you describe the CAA will suspend your license immediately, probably (according to my info) with a phone call made by The Man Himself, backed up by an email, and then you (i.e. me) have to sort out the mess.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

What happens if the guy keeps flying with your transponder ID ON while you & your aircraft are grounded? aircraft is stting in the hangar and you are shopping at Tesco, both can be substantiated with irrefutable proofs

Last Edited by Ibra at 24 Aug 20:29
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

alioth wrote:

It won’t fool anyone because the distance and speed of a model plane will generally be too low

You can spoof ADS-B from the ground without having to do any flight. All you need is a rogue transmitter programmed to emulate a flight.

ESME, ESMS
13 Posts
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top