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How many new CBIRs being issued per year in Europe?

After reading that only 10 (or 50) EIRs were ever issued in Europe, I wonder how my CBIRs have been issued since it came into effect and how many on average are being issued per year?

At the airfield where I fly, the flying club has graduated more that 8 IR students in the past 4 years, and the training takes on average 6-8 months. And that is at a grass VFR airfield. Any flying club at an IFR airfield should be able to do much better. But I know that in the UK, the training is mostly available from commercial outfits rather than flying clubs and their interests are perhaps not exactly on “hobby” GA pilots wanting to get an IR.

LSZK, Switzerland

chflyer wrote:

At the airfield where I fly, the flying club has graduated more that 8 IR students in the past 4 years, and the training takes on average 6-8 months. And that is at a grass VFR airfield. Any flying club at an IFR airfield should be able to do much better. But I know that in the UK, the training is mostly available from commercial outfits rather than flying clubs and their interests are perhaps not exactly on “hobby” GA pilots wanting to get an IR.

The problem is that you need to be an ATO to train for the IR and that is a heavy administrative and financial burden for a non-commercial organisation. Sweden has some 40 clubs with flight training (not counting ultralight). Only one of these is an ATO — and it does train for the IR.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Airborne_Again wrote:

The problem is that you need to be an ATO to train for the IR and that is a heavy administrative and financial burden for a non-commercial organisation.

Can you be specific about the burden? I’m surprised it is really that heavy if a flying club with maybe 200 active members including a school with perhaps 30-40 ab-initio students, operating out of a grass strip, is able to manage it.

Sorry if I tend to think of that as an excuse rather than a reason. Often flying clubs are very short-sighted and the members egoistical. Providing IR training is a big incentive for new PPLs to use their licence and develop their piloting skills further, especially if the flying club has IFR-capable aircraft.

Last Edited by chflyer at 10 May 08:40
LSZK, Switzerland

I have been “watching” the private IR takeup for almost 20 years, ever since the JAA IR, and the historical UK takeup was of the order of 20 a year. The UK CAA license issue figures are out there online somewhere… The numbers were slightly bigger than this because they included FTO / ATPL students who just happened to be sampled after they got their PPL but doing the IR before they got their CPL… not common. And the main centres of IR activity in Europe are the UK and Germany, with German pilots being rather more “compliant” than the Brits who tended to go the FAA / N-reg route en-masse The IR takeup in the rest of Europe has been relatively negligible. So I would estimate the long term historical completion of the purely private (non CPL, no airline pilot ambitions) JAA/EASA IR to be of the order of 50-70 per year.

But of course the landscape has been changing.

The CB IR is not a significant improvement over the old EASA IR because the major issues have not been addressed (the FTO, the exams which are full of crap, etc – many past threads).

The main advantage of the CB IR is the conversion route from an ICAO IR: you skip the exams. But since almost everybody with a non-Euro IR has the FAA IR and since almost everyone of those (who is flying anything more than a kite) owns or jointly owns an N-reg plane, I doubt many have sold up their plane, bought a Euro-reg one, took the hit in new maintenance etc issues on the chin, and converted their FAA IR to the CB IR. A few have, certainly, but only a few. Most N-regs are staying put. Those who have moved have tended to be people who buy a new Cirrus every year or two; reports I have heard is that N-reg ones are getting harder to sell.

A big nail in the coffin of the FAA route is the need to do the exams in the US. That came 2-3 years ago.

I think a huge factor for the CB IR is whether there is an FTO nearby which caters well for private pilots, including ones with their own plane. Some have this nearby, but I suspect most don’t. I used to but don’t now. If I had to do the IR today I would take up weaving (Justine and I did a course the other day; it’s fun!), buy a kite, and maybe fly an RV off a farm strip with the transponder turned off

How to fix the system is not rocket science. Anybody who flies more than a kite knows how to do it. But top level politics prevents any progress, usually behind closed doors, and nobody is willing to admit it.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

chflyer wrote:

Can you be specific about the burden? I’m surprised it is really that heavy if a flying club with maybe 200 active members including a school with perhaps 30-40 ab-initio students, operating out of a grass strip, is able to manage it.

That would be a very large club by Swedish standards. How does your club work? Do you have employed instructors or freelance? Paid staff? What is the yearly fee?

It is very unusual for Swedish clubs to have any employed instructors or staff. The club with an ATO I mentioned earlier is one of the very largest in Sweden and does have its head of training employed part-time.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

The club has evolved (improved) a lot over the past 10-15 years. Board members are key, both motivation and commitment wise.

Instructors are “freelance” in the sense that the student is charged an hourly instructor fee (per-minute) which I believe all goes to the instructor. They are not paid staff of the club. This includes simulator instruction. All board members are volunteers. One of the board positions is chief flying instructor.

Paid staff are 2 part-time secretaries who do the club admin but also provide a certain “presence” when a “Flugdienstleiter” is not on-site. There is a team of about 8-10 part-time “Flugdienstleiter” staff with one lead, who are present on weekends and during periods of significant activity such as during the week in good weather. The airfield is open from 0800LT until legal night max 2130LT in summer, legal night -30min in winter with specific limitations (especially starts) over lunchtime, so the opening hours are long. There are sections for aeroplanes and gliders. A separate parachuting club operates at the field with their own aircraft. A private company also bases 2 helis on the field and does their own training. Some private aircraft are available to club members for conventional (tail-dragger) and ski/glacier training as well.

Each part of the flying club has separate books: infrastructure, airfield operations, fleet/technical, flying school, and so on, so there is no cross-subsidization on the balance sheet. It just all comes together for a total.

There several fees:
1) one-time caution – $2’000, refundable on leaving the club
2) Annual active member fee – $500, $180 for those under 25.
3) Annual passive or ab-initio student member fee $100

The club was underfunded for years and while the book membership was significant, active flying membership was relatively low. The above fee and financial structure (as above) reorganization put the club onto a prosperous footing and there is now a very active participation. A couple examples:
- about 15 years ago one of the hangars was very run-down and needed to be replaced. It was primarily occupied by private aircraft owners. The club pre-financed the new hangar through interest loans from the private renters, who then had their rent deducted from the loans until paid back by the club. Since then, the rent is a major club revenue source with associated costs only being hangar maintenance. My Avatar shows my aircraft parked in front of this hangar. There are about 40-50 aircraft kept in it. Most club aircraft are in another hangar.
- the club has always had a spring cleaning day for members on a Saturday in April to get everything in shape for the season. 20 years ago there would be about 5-10 members show up. The last few years, over 70 members come out and it is a popular social event that builds contacts and solidarity and generates enthusiasm for the flying season.

Last Edited by chflyer at 10 May 11:22
LSZK, Switzerland
6 Posts
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