As far as I’m concerned I expect pilots to fly all the way to the IAF unless otherwise requested
airways wrote:
As far as I’m concerned I expect pilots to fly all the way to the IAF unless otherwise requested
So no additional „cleared STAR XYZ“?
I don’t. Our STARS don’t mean much so I’d rather get everybody to the iaf as soon as I can.
Peter wrote:
The assignment of off-filed-route waypoints by ATC is a “popular topic” in IFR. Then the lost comms procedure becomes undefined.
No, it doesn’t. In IMC, after 7 minutes you revert to the filed level and route, unless the minimum IFR altitude is higher (then climb to that). Extract from the German AIP 3.4-47:
I don’t remember if that is a slight European, or German, variation on the standard ICAO rule. The standard ICAO rules (Annex 10, Volume II):
The rest looks similar. See http://www.code7700.com/lost_communications.htm
lionel wrote:
No, it doesn’t. In IMC, after 7 minutes you revert to the filed level and route…
This only works if the filed route is not 100 miles away, which could happen.
Indeed. It also doesn’t say if you should return to the filed route by the shortest possible way (which might mean a 90 degree turn, and then another 90 degree turn at the waypoint) or by doing what “makes sense”.
@lionel: yes, these IFR lost comm procedures are a German thing, and a difference from ICAO procedures.
No, they are not just a German thing it is the same here in France.
What I was saying is that it is not a European thing.
boscomantico wrote:
What I was saying is that it is not a European thing.
No, it is global thing. It is what ICAO Annex 2 says! OTOH I can’t find it in SERA, which is a bit surprising.
achimha wrote:
most fighter jets are not capable of flying in IMC.
This is not true. Of course every fighter can fly in IMC. We are just limited by severe icing. When intercepeting a/c in IMC some special procedures apply but remember that we have radar and FLIR/CCD for Electronic VID.
About NORDO procedures in IFR. Please be advised that there are ICAO procedures but also national regulations.
When a 7600 is seen, Military ATC is advised and this unit advises one of the National Control and Reporting Centres (NATO). From there a fine tuned machine starts to work. I’m sorry that the full procedure is classified.
If the CRC or CAOC decides to intercept you, you will be joined by a fighter jet. You can now use you ICAO visual signs to communicate with him. Depending on many factors he will escort you or he will just RTB after gathering all the necessary info.
Summing up, you will be never be shot down for a 7600 at least in NATO countries. What you have to do is stick to your flight plan, proceed to the IAF of the last known rwy at your destination and complete the full procedure. If fuel permits, one holding will help ATC to move the traffics. Do not forget to transmit in the blind.
About the fellow pilot asking for a NORDO while being vectored, that’s why you must always be fully aware of where you are. Does that TMA have a NORDO procedure during the approach? If not, 7600 and continue with the logical sequence, ie: if you were given a vector to intercept the localizer, intercept it and fly the ILS. ATC will instruct other traffics to go around if necessary.
Speed