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IFR: lost comms, clearance limit and "expect vectors" by Arrival

As far as I’m concerned I expect pilots to fly all the way to the IAF unless otherwise requested

EBST, Belgium

airways wrote:

As far as I’m concerned I expect pilots to fly all the way to the IAF unless otherwise requested

So no additional „cleared STAR XYZ“?

always learning
LO__, Austria

I don’t. Our STARS don’t mean much so I’d rather get everybody to the iaf as soon as I can.

EBST, Belgium

Peter wrote:

The assignment of off-filed-route waypoints by ATC is a “popular topic” in IFR. Then the lost comms procedure becomes undefined.

No, it doesn’t. In IMC, after 7 minutes you revert to the filed level and route, unless the minimum IFR altitude is higher (then climb to that). Extract from the German AIP 3.4-47:

  • In VMC, squawk 7600, stay VMC, land at the nearest suitable aerodrome, inform ATC (e.g. by phone, or via the ground personnel).
  • In IMC:
    1. squawk 7600;
    2. maintain the last assigned speed and level or the minimum IFR cruising level (climb to that allowed) for a period of 7 minutes;
    3. then adjust level and speed in accordance with the filed flight plan (NOT CLEARANCE. Flight Plan.);
    4. when being radar vectored or proceeding offset using RNAV without a temporal or local clearance limit, proceed in the most direct
      manner possible to rejoin the current flight plan route no later than at the next significant point, taking into consideration the applicable minimum IFR cruising level.
    5. proceed according to the current flight plan route to an appropriate initial approach fix serving the destination aerodrome (…)
    6. etc

I don’t remember if that is a slight European, or German, variation on the standard ICAO rule. The standard ICAO rules (Annex 10, Volume II):

  • allow to continue the IFR flight even in VMC if “considered advisable”.
  • in non-radar environment, keep last assigned speed and level for 20 minutes, and for 7 minutes in radar environment.

The rest looks similar. See http://www.code7700.com/lost_communications.htm

ELLX

lionel wrote:

No, it doesn’t. In IMC, after 7 minutes you revert to the filed level and route…

This only works if the filed route is not 100 miles away, which could happen.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Indeed. It also doesn’t say if you should return to the filed route by the shortest possible way (which might mean a 90 degree turn, and then another 90 degree turn at the waypoint) or by doing what “makes sense”.

@lionel: yes, these IFR lost comm procedures are a German thing, and a difference from ICAO procedures.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 19 Feb 07:36
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

No, they are not just a German thing it is the same here in France.

France

What I was saying is that it is not a European thing.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

boscomantico wrote:

What I was saying is that it is not a European thing.

No, it is global thing. It is what ICAO Annex 2 says! OTOH I can’t find it in SERA, which is a bit surprising.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

achimha wrote:

most fighter jets are not capable of flying in IMC.

This is not true. Of course every fighter can fly in IMC. We are just limited by severe icing. When intercepeting a/c in IMC some special procedures apply but remember that we have radar and FLIR/CCD for Electronic VID.

About NORDO procedures in IFR. Please be advised that there are ICAO procedures but also national regulations.
When a 7600 is seen, Military ATC is advised and this unit advises one of the National Control and Reporting Centres (NATO). From there a fine tuned machine starts to work. I’m sorry that the full procedure is classified.

If the CRC or CAOC decides to intercept you, you will be joined by a fighter jet. You can now use you ICAO visual signs to communicate with him. Depending on many factors he will escort you or he will just RTB after gathering all the necessary info.

Summing up, you will be never be shot down for a 7600 at least in NATO countries. What you have to do is stick to your flight plan, proceed to the IAF of the last known rwy at your destination and complete the full procedure. If fuel permits, one holding will help ATC to move the traffics. Do not forget to transmit in the blind.
About the fellow pilot asking for a NORDO while being vectored, that’s why you must always be fully aware of where you are. Does that TMA have a NORDO procedure during the approach? If not, 7600 and continue with the logical sequence, ie: if you were given a vector to intercept the localizer, intercept it and fly the ILS. ATC will instruct other traffics to go around if necessary.

Speed

Don't get too slow
LECU, Spain
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