I like the mountains and I will need to train for a month so I was primarily looking for a place around the alps. In addition I will get to train in the challenging mountain terrain which I need.
ATOs that were willing: Fly West in Innsbruck. Absolute pilots in Graz, Austria. Avialpes in Annecy, France.
ATOs that were not: Aviation Flight Center in Wiener Neustadt. In addition I contacted 5-10 other ATOs in Switzerland, Scandinavia, and other ATOs in Austria who either did not reply or said no.
@sedatedokc Mind if I ask which ones they are? Also as pm if you prefer :)
For others future reference: I contacted many ATOs. First know that the ATO has to be approved for the precise training you need (IR is different from CB IR, Piper Navajo is different from DA42, etc.) and aircraft. Even once you find the ATO that meets your needs (CB IR ME and DA42 in my case) many will say no or not reply. At the end of the day its just their willingness and how busy they are I guess.
That said I have found two that are willing. One in Innsbruck and one in Graz. I imagine they are more interested if you will be doing a larger number of hours instead of the minimum. I have not started my training yet but I will shortly.
So it is possible. Just takes a lot of asking around.
IME whether you can use your own aitcraft for IR training, even the hours in an ATO is country specific. When I first did the MEIR, I did all the practical in my own aircraft, although when it came to the CBIR I had already sold my plane and did it in ATO aircraft. I also know several people who did the CBIR in their own aircraft.
There are also several clubs in which you can do most of the hours towards your CBIR either in the club aircraft or in your own.
This sort of decision depends heavily on whether you are
In the former case, one can do the IR in any old heap. When I did my FAA IR, Arizona, 2006, I intentionally chose a school operating a simple type, not G1000 etc which would have wasted a few days of my allocated 2 weeks, and the plane I fly back home is not G1000.
In the latter case, you don’t just want the IR; you also want to become a better pilot, and currency on type is the biggest part of flight safety. It makes huge sense to do the IR in your own plane. It will probably halve the number of hours it takes you, especially if you are already familiar with IFR procedures (as e.g. UK IMCR holders should be).
Unfortunately European restrictive practices (mainly, the close tie-up between IR training and airline ops, and the symbolic/emotional attachment between the IR and a “professional pilot”) make the #2 route hard for most people, simply because most don’t live within an easy driving or flying range of an FTO which is willing to use their plane. This aspect has never been easy.
The CBIR optional alleviation of flying with a freelance IRI supports the owner-pilot path but is hard for most because there are very few IRIs around and you still need an FTO to take on your plane for the last bit.
It’s a bit easier in the UK for IMCR holders and their 15hr credit, but they still need the FTO… It’s a purely elitist stitch-up.
sedatedokc wrote:
For the practical flying for CB-IR, at the minimum the last 10 hours need to be flown at an ATO.
It’s a different story for SET (or even more expensive stuff), but for a standard MEP-Trainer like the DA-42 it might be more effort to get it in the ATO than the cost difference between those 10 ours in your own plane and on charter. (Used to be different when the entire IR-Training had to be flown in the ATO).
Ibra wrote:
Not if it’s flown solely by the owner? I understand it’s heavy paperwork when it’s flown by other students…
They just have to declare and insure, it’s 30min max !
I was under the impression that if their training manual doesn’t cover that type, then they must extend the training manual, and this is not a declaration, but an approval by the CAA. I may be mistaken.
Well, go and tell that the LBA in Germany. They won’t let you enroll your aircraft for training under ATO environment if it’s not in CAMO supervision.
Or simply use an ATO outside Germany.
The UK has / has had similar stuff. IIRC, when I was doing my JAA IR in 2011/2012, the last service on the aircraft had to be a “proper signoff”, not under pilot maintenance privileges.
To be honest, if I was an instructor or examiner, and knowing that I spend most of my flying hours in FTO aircraft which are mostly only barely airworthy (the actual words of a CAA examiner), I would like the same.
But this is easy and inexpensive.
Well, go and tell that the LBA in Germany. They won’t let you enroll your aircraft for training under ATO environment if it’s not in CAMO supervision.
I know few people in Germany who did FAA IR to LBA CBIR in privately owned N-reg, I can’t see how they could put them in CAMO without getting FAA Certificate of Export and D-reg with LBA? In UK/France, the pilot can’t perform and sign 50h check if it’s used in ATO
