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ATPL and CPL License differences (can you fly a bizjet on a CPL/IR?)

As a purely academic thing, I think you can fly these on a PPL if you have the Type Rating. The practical problem is that you cannot get the TR since everybody who runs TR courses requires an IR. So a PPL/IR is the minimum.

I’ve just been talking to someone about this and…

It is really curious, but apparently true, that you could have two AOC jets, one SP, one MP, and the SP one could have a CPL/IR in the LHS while the MP one would need an ATPL. Both need two pilots anyway.

Source:

CPL:
FCL.305
(3) act as PIC in commercial air transport of any single-pilot aircraft subject to the restrictions specified in FCL.060 and in this Subpart;
ATPL:
FCL.505
(2) act as PIC of aircraft engaged in commercial air transport.

ORO.FC.A.250 Commanders holding a CPL(A)
(a) The holder of a CPL(A) (aeroplane) shall only act as commander in commercial air transport on a single-pilot aeroplane if:
(2) when operating on a multi-engine type under IFR, he/she has a minimum of 700 hours of flight time on aeroplanes, including 400 hours as pilot-in-command. These hours shall include 100 hours under IFR and 40 hours in multi-engine operations. The 400 hours as pilot-in-command may be substituted by hours operating as co-pilot within an established multi-pilot crew system prescribed in the operations manual, on the basis of two hours of flight time as co-pilot for one hour of flight time as pilot-in command.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

@emir
It is possible, see below legal mumble jumble. Obviously only to very wealthy people. The really important thing about operating these planes as a PPL is their attitude and to be aware that error tolerance is much lower. A quick level bust in RVSM can take down an airliner.

EASA text:
1) Single-pilot multi-engine aeroplanes
Applicants for the issue of a first class or type rating on a single-pilot multi-engine aeroplane shall have completed at least 70 hours as PIC in aeroplanes.

(2) Single-pilot high-performance non-complex aeroplanes
Before starting flight training, applicants for the issue of a class or type rating for a single- pilot aeroplane classified as a high-performance aeroplane shall:
(i) have at least 200 hours of total flying experience, of which 70 hours as PIC in aeroplanes; and
(ii) comply with one of the following requirements:
(A) hold a certificate of satisfactory completion of a course for additional theoretical knowledge undertaken at an ATO;

(3) Single-pilot high-performance complex aeroplanes
Applicants for the issue of a type rating for a complex single-pilot aeroplane classified as a high- performance aeroplane shall, in addition to meeting the requirements in point (2), hold or have held a single- or multi-engine IR, as appropriate and as established in Subpart G and shall meet the requirements in point (b)(5) → UPRT course (Snoopy note).

AMC1 FCL.720.A(b)(2)(i) Experience requirements and prerequisites for the issue of class or type ratings – aeroplanes
ADDITIONAL THEORETICAL KNOWLEDGE FOR A CLASS OR TYPE RATING FOR HIGH-PERFORMANCE SINGLE- PILOT (SP) AEROPLANES
(a) A number of aeroplanes certificated for SP operation have similar performances, systems and navigation capabilities to those more usually associated with MP types of aeroplanes, and regularly operate within the same airspace. The level of knowledge required to operate safely in this environment is not part of, or not included to the necessary depth of knowledge in the training syllabi for the PPL, CPL or IR but these licence holders may fly as PIC of such aeroplanes. The additional theoretical knowledge required to operate such aeroplanes safely is obtained by completion of a course at an ATO.
(b) The aim of the theoretical knowledge course is to provide the applicant with sufficient knowledge of those aspects of the operation of aeroplanes capable of operating at high speeds and altitudes, and the aircraft systems necessary for such operation.

Last Edited by Snoopy at 19 Dec 10:33
always learning
LO__, Austria

Emir wrote:

I’m not sure you can fly twin jet (or twin turboprop) with PPL only in EASA-land

The last guy I asked for an ex-military twin jet with (no type rating), told me for UK-only: 100h PPL and lot of money

Last Edited by Ibra at 19 Dec 10:29
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

I wonder what type of operation @alex_ was thinking of doing?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Emir wrote:

I’m not sure you can fly twin jet (or twin turboprop) with PPL only in EASA-land, even if it’s single-pilot aircraft

Yes you can, I fly both Citation and King Air on an EASA PPL with appropriate type ratings and embedded IR. I used to fly on an FAA CPL/IR with type ratings but I don’t keep that up to date at the moment as I am not flying US reg aircraft.
Note that to actually get the type rating you need a MEIR as a pre-requisite to the training course, so you have to have a current EASA IR on a MEP at that time.
Once you have the type rating on your licence they have IRs attached to them which are re-validated every year in the same LPC as the Type Rating, so you don’t have to keep the MEP class rating or IR alive.

Last Edited by Neil at 20 Dec 10:51
Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

Neil wrote:

so you don’t have to keep the MEP class rating

Neither 99% of those flying airliners have current MEPiston rating

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

There is a huge difference between just sitting the HPA exam (approx 500 Euro, exam can be done at an ATO, no expiry/time limit before actually flying this type of aircraft)

What HPA ATO exam?
I remember another thread where it was concluded that the HPA can be done completely via distance learning.

always learning
LO__, Austria

A few years back, Concord Test Pilots were flying with a PPL.

Tumbleweed wrote:

Concord Test Pilots were flying with a PPL

You can still fly it on UK PPL? (it is Annex 2/Annex 1) if you get the TR
I think it was used most of the time as example not to discriminate (non-EASA aircraft does not mean a wood & fabric)

Last Edited by Ibra at 20 Dec 13:49
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Wow lots of replies…Thanks very much.

@peter I was thinking of flying a single pilot approved light jet for a private owner.

I am just debating if I take the ATPL exams or take the easier option of the CPL exams and a separate HPA course. (I have an IR so can skip MET and HPL).

Although I could fly on a PPL if I was to do more of this kind of flying it would be nice to be paid !

Last Edited by Alex_ at 20 Dec 20:25
Alex
Shoreham (EGKA) White Waltham (EGLM), United Kingdom
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