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Flying on Non-EU Aircraft for Revalidation (German PPL)

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Hello,

I’m trying to figure out the rules for revalidation of an EASA PPL(A) – SEP issued by Germany.

Can I log flight time on an aircraft with a non-EU registration?

If positive and I fly on such an aircraft with an instructor should I log the time as Dual or as PIC?

Thank!

EDHE/LLHZ, Israel

Can I log flight time on an aircraft with a non-EU registration?

Sure. There’s no possible reason why not. You can even train and do the test for a new EASA rating in an N-reg. I did this in France where, technically, I was flying on my FAA certificate.

If positive and I fly on such an aircraft with an instructor should I log the time as Dual or as PIC?

Sorry, I don’t have sufficient grasp of such minutiae to remember the correct answer, even if I knew it. I usually log instruction as dual and any test/revalidation as PIC but @Peter or @Airborne_Again will know for sure whether that’s likely to land me on the CAA’s naughty step.

Glenswinton, SW Scotland, United Kingdom

We don’t know whose airspace this Q relates to – Israel, Germany, or other?

I have no idea what the German or Israeli CAA rules are but – myself flying N-reg – I log PIC (or P1) any flight on which I am legally PIC, regardless of whether it is a revalidation, renewal, or any form of instruction. Even a UK CAA examiner told me that is what I should do, for an EASA IR renewal where I was legally PIC because of my FAA CPL/IR.

There is, I believe, a custom in the UK G-reg scene to log PU/T (pilot under training) on any flight with an FI regardless of anything else.

I did my entire JAA/EASA IR in the UK in my N-reg TB20, and all my EASA PPL or IR revalidations are done the same way. However I would not be able to do the IR today* where I am based, and I am using freelance examiners for all the other stuff.

The UK (and possibly the EU) has a requirement for any instructor (even if training for a non European license e.g. FAA IR) to have EASA CPL theory passes if the instructor is being paid and being paid for the flight itself but I have no idea if Israel has a similar rule. It has been enforced in the UK but I believe is largely ignored (or is unknown) elsewhere.

* There is a general issue with the instructor (or his school, if the flight is required to be done via a school) objecting to the foreign-reg aircraft, or objecting to a customer-owned aircraft. Not much you can do about this… and it is a widespread problem.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Thank you Jacko and Peter.

My Q relates to both Israeli and US airspace and I think I got the answers I was expecting.

Much appreciated.

EDHE/LLHZ, Israel

Getting a German EASA PPL revalidated in the US is going to be fun, simply because there will be so few EASA rated instructors. You could probably get it done in the 6 or 7 ATOs which do both FAA and EASA PPL training.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

You can do revalidation (not renwal/test) with EASA instructors in the US, it does not have to be under ATO no? or EU-reg/EU-airspace? Just them holding a German licenece…

I know 3 instructors in NYC, LA and FL areas, surprisingly all of them are have Switzerland CAA papers as well as FAA, so they may not be able to sign German PPLs as far as freelance ink is concerned but one of them works in one of EASA ATO (under UK CAA) there it could be possible?

ESSEX, United Kingdom

The instructor doesn’t need to have a German license, only an EASA one. Them having a German license would facilitate things, as they would be allowed to enter the new expiry date in handwriting.
If they have their license issued by a different CAA, you’ll need to fill in a form and send it to the LBA or state CAA (Landesluftfahrtbehörde) in order to get a newly printed license with the new date on it. This is inevitably going to cost some money and time, whereas a friendly instructor might do or for free, but that’s it.

Regarding the logging of time (applicable to German licences only):The LBA have made it crystal clear that they want you to log Dual Time whenever you have an instructor or examiner on board who is acting as such and thus PIC. They expressed this in a NfL which I presently don’t have at hand.

I’ve never heard of a restriction regarding the airspace where the flying and refresher training is taking place!

EDXN, ETMN, Germany

Them having a German license would facilitate things, as they would be allowed to enter the new expiry date in handwriting.

I have a german license and my ratings are revalidated with handwritten entries by examiners from all over EU/EASA.

A license endorsement in a german license is permitted for a revalidation.

Make Aviation Great Again
Europe/Austria

I think the wording in my last post was slightly misleading. What I was intending to say is that Instructors do need explicit permission to do handwritten entries as per FCL.945. For German-issued licenses, this is allowed by NfL 1-1678-19 of which I’ve attached a copy. I don’t know about other countries’ regulations, so I wanted to say that the route via the respective CAA should always work.

Sorry for the confusion!

Edit: repaired broken link

Last Edited by CharlieRomeo at 31 Jul 11:51
EDXN, ETMN, Germany

Cheers, everyone. Much appreciated!

EDHE/LLHZ, Israel
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