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Upgrade from E-IR to CB-IR or B-IR: how much effort

After the zoom meeting of Tuesday and having an EIR I started to wonder what the efforts would be to move to CB-IR.
The theory part and exam being the same it is solved.
I know that PIC time and EIR traing can be credited (to a certain extend) towards the CB-IR but that the min. 10h ATO remains.
What I was wondering was more regarding how much instruction would be needed to learn and get proficient in IFR departures/arrivals

I am also wondering what the route from EIR to BIR could be… I would expect that the theory would be granted and it would be IFR departures/arrivals which might be somewhat lighter than CB-IR but not that much…

Well any comments or views on this is welcome

Belgium: EBGB (Grimbergen, Brussels) - EBAW (Antwerp) - EBNM (Namur), Belgium

Maybe this is partly applicable?

Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Thanks Peter but that is more like regarding the legal framework.
My question was rather in practice… how much extra training would be reasonable required ?

Belgium: EBGB (Grimbergen, Brussels) - EBAW (Antwerp) - EBNM (Namur), Belgium

jfw wrote:

Thanks Peter but that is more like regarding the legal framework.
My question was rather in practice… how much extra training would be reasonable required ?

If you want to understand what your skills are and how they compare with the the required performance during the test, then you need to find and IR instructor.
Try @Snoopy, for example, he will be able to perform such an assessment. :) Alternatively, try an ATO?

Regarding BIR – not sure if anyone can confirm it now, as it not yet live. Theoretically/legally @bookworm might be able to answer?


@jfw I will msg you directly. Need to dig in the regulations. My understanding is the E-IR was “chopped”, so it would only be sensible to expect some provisions for the holders of this rating to get an easy path to the IR or B-IR.

Freelance IRI / CB-IR Instructor
LOWG | Worldwide

I did the upgrade from EIR to CB-IR in the spring of 2019. As the nearest suitable ATO was located almost 500 km from my home base, I did some training with a local IRI(A) to get my performance up to and above a level where my instructor thought I would complete in 10 hours at the ATO.

Remember that the 10 hours are instrument time, not block time, and it is up to the ATO how much they will credit. The ATO is supposed to do an aasesment flight with you.

ENKJ, Norway

@Skylane-pilot That is an interesting reference. How much experience EIR did you have, how many hours with the instructor and how many hours with the ATO did you use to get the CB-IR ?

Belgium: EBGB (Grimbergen, Brussels) - EBAW (Antwerp) - EBNM (Namur), Belgium

Before going to the ATO, I had logged about 93 hours IFR, including 3 training passes with my local IRI(A) of about 2 hours each. At the ATO I did an asessment flight of 1:10 and 12:50 of dual instruction. I also attended a mandatory PBN classroom course at the ATO.

ENKJ, Norway

I strongly suggest to do as much as legally possible in a simulator, i.e. an ATO with an FNPT II sim.

Most of the CBIR content is procedures (holding patterns, arrivals, NDB / VOR / RNP approaches, missed approaches, DME Arcs, and so on) and it is by far more efficient to learn those in a simulator than in a real plane. In the sim, the IRI just repositions the simulation back to where you started the approach, and you do it again. And again. In a real plane you can do that once, max twice in the 1.5hrs you have. Which amounts to much more time, effort and cost involved. And the sim is completely weather independent.

Of course you need to fly it ‘in real’ eventually a couple times, but that will be by a magnitude simpler if you know all the avionics and ‘quick calculations’ by heart. Find an ATO that has an flight sim and go there. If you don’t have one in your vicinity I would even suggest to wait until you can spare 2 weeks on holiday. It is so much better.

Last Edited by EuroFlyer at 27 Nov 11:27
Safe landings !
EDLN, Germany

I agree that a SIM has advantages for the procedures („freeze“ button).

On the other hand (all local prices) a
FNPT II based on ancient Seneca avionics is 150€/hour.

This is 216€/hour

This is 180€/hour

One could get a basic home sim to practice procedures (either in person or connecting to an instructor remotely) and spend the money flying for real.

Last Edited by Snoopy at 27 Nov 11:52
Freelance IRI / CB-IR Instructor
LOWG | Worldwide
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