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EASA-FAA bilateral pilot licensing treaty (BASA)

wbardorf wrote:

I don’t think it would be too much of an issue as by the time you have completed your FAA IR, you would have completed the minimum requirement of 40 hrs of simulated/actual IMC flying. Under FAA rules, you would log all that time as PIC as long as you were the sole operator of the flight controls. However, as IFR time != IR/IMC time so it is important that most of those flights (the ones that would be hard to do would be the slow flight/maneuvering/unusual attitude training flights that are better conducted in simulated IMC under VFR) be conducted under an IFR flight plan. Therefore, many pilots will end up with 30-40 hours of IFR PIC time by the time they have done the FAA IR – reaching 50 IFR PIC time is therefore not that difficult.

Not all CAA’s are interpreting it this way. They interpret IFR (IFR Flight Rules) time to be on an IFR flight plan, not the FAA “instrument” time (IMC+hood+sim), and don’t count FAA PIC time logged during IR training. In other words, the 50 hrs PIC needs to be a) on an IFR flight plan and b) post-IR rating. On the other hand, EASA counts flight hours as IR PIC time vs the FAA “instrument” time which is somewhat less, so the total increases a bit more quickly.

I know someone who was granted an EIR rating based on his FAA IR so that he could build the required time on an IFR FPL in Europe.

Last Edited by chflyer at 20 Nov 10:43
LSZK, Switzerland

Peter wrote:

The BFR is just a 1hr flight with an FAA CFI

You can even get credit for flights with an EASA FI for your SEP(L) revalidation and use Wings to take care of the theory requirement; see Qualupalik’s posts here and here – as always, his information is spot on.

tmo
EPKP - Kraków, Poland

chflyer wrote:

Not all CAA’s are interpreting it this way. They interpret IFR (IFR Flight Rules) time to be on an IFR flight plan, not the FAA “instrument” time (IMC+hood+sim), and don’t count FAA PIC time logged during IR training. In other words, the 50 hrs PIC needs to be a) on an IFR flight plan and b) post-IR rating. On the other hand, EASA counts flight hours as IR PIC time vs the FAA “instrument” time which is somewhat less, so the total increases a bit more quickly.

That is correct which is why I mentioned further above that IFR PIC time != IR PIC time. I know from a recent FAA→Part-FCL conversion to a part-FCL licence issued by Germany that condition (a) “needs to be on an IFR flight plan” needs to fulfilled be but (b) “post-IR rating” doesn’t have to be.

EGTF, EGLK, United Kingdom

Peter_G wrote:

is there a FINISH DATE i.e. a point where PPL pilots will no longer be able to fly IFR in EASA land without having done the conversion?

To answer my own question, I’ve just been informed that it is: June 2022 (just extended by a year).
But knowing EU/EASA, there is always a possibility of last minute extension (although they will have less excuse this time).

Rochester, UK, United Kingdom

wbardorf wrote:

That is correct which is why I mentioned further above that IFR PIC time != IR PIC time. I know from a recent FAA→Part-FCL conversion to a part-FCL licence issued by Germany that condition (a) “needs to be on an IFR flight plan” needs to fulfilled be but (b) “post-IR rating” doesn’t have to be.

Even that “needs to be on an IFR flightplan” isn’t really true.

It needs to be “under IFR”.

And the two are not necessarily the same. You could do all your 50 hours under IFR in the UK (without ever filing a flightplan) and they could do nothing about it.

What IS true is that hours flown under the hood (which count towards “instrument time” in the FAA ruleset) don’t count.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 20 Nov 13:17
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

boscomantico wrote:

What IS true is that hours flown under the hood (which count towards “instrument time” in the FAA ruleset) don’t count.

Why not, if they’re flown according to IFR? A lot of instrument training is done under the hood. Do you have a reference?

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

I’ve just been informed that it is: June 2022 (just extended by a year).

What does this relate to? Is it the derogation, as in this ? The current SRG2140/42 extension ends June 2021.

Why not, if they’re flown according to IFR?

Well, it is a silly way to draw up the regs, if you want to cover Europe. Most IR training involves the aircraft flying in VFR conditions, so it doesn’t count for this purpose even though the pilot is personally “IFR” in that he can’t see where the hell he is going

We did this “IFR time” before. IIRC, it came from a German committee member who insisted on it, because in Germany you can’t have one without the other… or some variation. It is in some past thread. To UK pilots it is a daft way to draft it because – some years ago, I think – a plain PPL could log IFR time in CAVOK conditions, just by flying at IFR levels

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I was referring to hood time flown under VFR. If the hood time is under IFR, then it of course is IFR time.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

Peter wrote:

What does this relate to? Is it the derogation, as in this ?

Yes. The deadline that was originally April 2014 is now June 2022.

Sorry @bookworm… what was this? The original EASA FCL anti-N-reg “everybody in Europe must have EASA papers” deadline was 8th April 2012, as mentioned here. I did the JAA IR just before that, and then the derogations started, every year or two, so it wasn’t necessary after all. And even now, lots of N-reg pilots are still flying purely on FAA papers.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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