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CB-IR vs IR

Peter wrote:

I am not sure whether the minimum classroom time (and, for many, resulting hotel residence) has been reduced. Does anyone have any real-world data on this? I have data only on the 13-exam CPL process (three 4-day classroom sessions at CATS) but that is the old JAA route.

I think it says somewhere that it should be 10% of the total workload ? Was 40h for the IR TK (out of 400) and I think it’s 80h (out of 800) for the ATPL

Alboule wrote:

I’m going to register for a CB-IR course, probably at Institut Mermoz. Anybody got experience with this ATO?

@Alboule : I did my JAA IR TK with them in 2011. At the time I was p1ssed because they gave you ATPL books with outdated LOs so you could not really know what you should read or not read. I had to find the proper LOs myself and learn what was for the IR only
I hear that they now hace specific CB-IR books so I hope it is better than it was. As for the rest (online tools and the such) i cannot help you, I did not use them (ony easy-atpl which suffers from he same “ATPL” problems when you train for IR (i.e. it’s an ATPL bank so you’ll get them all and have to sort it out yourself)

ELLX (Luxembourg), Luxembourg

For studying I highly recommend the Padpilot books (ipad only) and Aviation exam. “Forget” about the theory provider as in 8h you won’t learn anything, can’t even skim though all the topics.
I wouldn’t buy the book for flight planning and for IFR comms as those subjects are pretty trivial / not much theory needed.

@Alboule

I am doing my CB -IR with Mermoz and did the initial 1.5 days in a classroom in Paris in December of last year. The rest of the theory is pretty much home study – they give you 2 books and 6 months access to their QCM (multiple choice) base that will allow you to practice for the exam. The questions they have kept are pretty much the same as the questions used for the old French national IR. I am not a native French speaker (I have a native level but it’s not my mother tongue) and I find the books written in a needlessly complex language whereas they could have very easily simplified (maybe I am just not that bright).
They say they provide tutoring, but I am struggling getting the questions I ask answered timely. I am planning on finalizing the theory part in the next 4 weeks then do all the exams at the DGAC (Mermoz for the self study give you homework that needs to be completed online before they will sign you off for the exams, DGAC will not accept you unless the ATO has signed you off to do the tests) – the practical part to the test preparation (simulator and the actual flying) I will do with Aeralp at Grenoble. (I am based LFHN so a little bit of a drive if weather does not permit flying) to LFLS. Happy to have a chat over the phone or you can email me on [email protected] if you have any questions you think i can answer specifically.

Peter wrote :

Also, the CB IR exams are perhaps 1/3 less work than the old IR exams. That’s worth quite a lot. In the end it means you spend that much less time sitting down with an Ipad and banging the online question bank for a few weeks… I am not sure whether the minimum classroom time (and, for many, resulting hotel residence) has been reduced. Does anyone have any real-world data on this? I have data only on the 13-exam CPL process (three 4-day classroom sessions at CATS) but that is the old JAA route.

I’m not so sure the CB IR tests are actually that much simpler or less work. No offense intended but in France they seem to want to make it as complicated as possible and the theory and questions I am getting on the theory is very irrelevant for GA flying – a lot of the stuff is around airplanes like 777’s etc. which hardly any GA pilot will ever fly.

I hope to focus on this pretty much full time for the next 3 months and have it all done by then (this great thing my UK employer has called gardening leave before moving on to a new exciting job :-) ) then by a plane a do loads of flying – thinking about a turbo-normalized Piper Comanche 260 (so if anyone hears about a nice one :-))

Hope this is helpful.
Wim

LFHN - Bellegarde - Vouvray France

the theory and questions I am getting on the theory is very irrelevant for GA flying – a lot of the stuff is around airplanes like 777’s etc. which hardly any GA pilot will ever fly.

That is very odd… when the 7-exam “private” JAA IR theory was being put together, sometime around 1999-2002 (at the time I was told the only option was the 14 ATPL exams!) they removed supposedly all questions on big jet stuff, after many people complained.

The removal of that stuff happened in several stages. When I did 3 days of ground school at GTS in 2011 there were still many jet related topics in their homework material (stuff like very early laser gyros from the 1970s) but the UK CAA exams didn’t have any of those questions. The online QBs had a very small number of them…

That of course is why the 7-exam JAA IR theory doesn’t give you credit towards any of the CPL/ATPL exams (except HP&L)…

I do know that not all national CAAs removed the jet etc related questions, and it sounds like France left them in. In that case you should get credit towards the ATPL exams (fat chance of that!)

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

What you had is actually questions related to FMS modes of the 737
I had these in the JAA IR TK , don’t know if they removed them since

@LFHNflightstudent : if you think it’s hard and that they did not change anything, then you’re lucky you did not do the full IR TK

ELLX (Luxembourg), Luxembourg

What you had is actually questions related to FMS modes of the 737
I had these in the JAA IR TK , don’t know if they removed them since

This sounds country-specific, but here in the UK everybody was “absolutely assured” that there would be no jet related questions in the 7-exam JAA IR theory exams, as of around 2010.

I can confirm that from sitting the exams in 2011. Not a single such question.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Neil wrote:

They told me it was to differentiate whether you have done the full IR TK or the CB-IR reduced TK

I just came across a document which seems to support this. The HPA course is divided into VFR and IFR sections with full IR theory holders only needing to do the VFR part, and CB-IR holders needing to do both.

See here (page 92):

Last Edited by Roger at 03 Aug 13:28
EGBB

Many thanks for that post, @Roger.

However, I can’t find where Appendix 6 A is.

Is that the old JAA IR 7-exam course, 50/55hrs ab initio or 15hrs if doing the conversion route?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

However, I can’t find where Appendix 6 A is.

It’s in part-FCL – introduced by Commission Regulation 245/2014 (and amended by Commission Regulation 2015/445).

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

OK, but what is it?

Sorry – I don’t even know where Part-FCL is. I find the EASA website(s) an impenetrable mess.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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