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CB-IR vs IR

Peter wrote:

This sounds country-specific, but here in the UK everybody was “absolutely assured” that there would be no jet related questions in the 7-exam JAA IR theory exams, as of around 2010.

I can confirm that from sitting the exams in 2011. Not a single such question.

I sat the CBIR exams recently. I got the 737 EFIS question in Instruments. I then complained and got the question changed to a mark which in turn changed the exam from a fail to a pass :-)
Did the exams in Gatwick.

pmh
www.ekbr.dk, Denmark

Peter wrote:

However, I can’t find where Appendix 6 A is.

Is that the old JAA IR 7-exam course, 50/55hrs ab initio or 15hrs if doing the conversion route?

Appendix 6 is in Part-FCL/CAP804 (see here Section 4, part L, page 33)

6A refers to the ‘traditional’ IR requiring 150hrs of theory. As far as I know, this route is still open as is the conversion route of doing the 150hrs TK and then 15hrs training from an ICAO IR. So anyone who has done 150hrs of IR theory needs to only do the ‘VFR’ part of the HPA exams.

In practice, I’m not sure any of the HPA providers (CATS?) differentiate and everyone ends up taking the full course. I would guess the majority of people taking the HPA from now on will have gained their IR via the CB-IR (be it initial or ICAO conversion) route anyway.

EGBB

Peter wrote:

OK, but what is it?

Appendix 6 is the regs for modular IR courses – number of hours, course contents, that sort of thing. 6A covers the old-style IR (for aeroplanes), 6Aa covers the CB IR,

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

@Neil, have they removed the “CB” remark?

@Peter, this is exactly what I wrote about here, in this section, I think almost a year ago. The issue is that HPA theory has a IFR and a VFR part. The IFR part was kept within the IR and the VFR was separated into HPA course (instead of being part of CPL, for example). And when they created EIR/ CB-IR syllabus, they chucked the rest of HPA related theory. Maybe they removed a bit more, I’m not really interested in going through it. And moved this IFR HPA into the HPA course, as it perhaps should have been in the first place.

This creates some interesting possibilities. If you have the “old” HPA and CB-IR, you are missing the IFR HPA theory and the solution AFAIK is doing the HPA again (not sure about crediting). Or you could, of course, do ATPL theory. And if you have “full” IR theory and want to do the “new” HPA, you should get credit for the IFR part.

Another limitation of the EIR/ CB-IR theory is that you can’t get full credit for IR theory when you want IR in another category like you can with “full” IR theory. You need HPA course for that.

I’m writing this from memory, so I could be a bit off.

Since you can’t find it, i’ll give you some links:

  • Explanatory note This is the document I referenced previously. If you want to skip, then go to page 6. This is the explanatory note to the amendment that introduced EIR and CB-IR into the Part-FCL AMC/ GM.
  • 1178/2011 Here you can find the Appendix 6. The prerequisites for single-pilot high performance non-complex aircraft are in FCL.720.A(b) on page 50. The course mentioned in (2)(i) is the HPA course. FCL.035(b)(5) on page 23 relates to the issue of crediting IR theory in another category of aircraft.
  • Part-FCL AMC/ GM This is the document that was ammended by the one Roger referenced. I’m not aware of a consolidated version.

PS: I found a bug. The second link should read “1178/2011 (with all amendments)” and it does here in the editor so it’s not lost, it’s just not displayed.

Last Edited by Martin at 07 Oct 20:52

It would be funny if the “CB” remark got removed after you got the HPA

Thanks for reporting that bug, @Martin – it is one of those connected with auto-creation of clickable links.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

@Peter I wouldn’t be surprised (if indeed new-HPA + CB-IR = old-HPA + IR, as far as theory goes). They will definitely want to track who has the shorter CB theory and who has the “full” IR theory.

It would be interesting to know if you can still do VFR only HPA. The old arrangement allowed you to do this and fly something like a PC-7 MkII. It’s interesting that the “MkI” or turboprop PC-6 are not considered HPA while the Meridian is.

Last Edited by Martin at 13 Oct 11:29

When I added the CE525 Type Rating (and Instrument Rating for the type) they did not remove the CB remark.
I will be there again soon as I have recently done a King Air course at Flight Safety, so I need to get that TR and associated IR added. I will ask again but I suspect I will get the same blank look.

Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

Hi All
Recently got the CB IR and just (today) received the licence back – IR SP SE – is what it says , no mention of CB ?!

Thanks for the inspiration provided by a lot of you guys. Can’t say it’s been easy , it’s a big jump up for the average IR R pilot like me . Lots of good advice here and I’m sure I’ll be asking a few questions going forward – as they say ! Signed up to Autorouter and meeting up with a regular IFR flyer/instructor v soon to get the lowdown on real life IFR around Europe.

Congratulations!

Did you convert a 3rd country IR? I get the sense that it is what you did otherwise you would already be familiar with EU IFR.

Where in the world are you from, and in what country did you get your EASA IR?

LFPT, LFPN

Hi – thanks !
No , UK based , just “upgraded” my IMCR/IR R to IR.
Lots of VFR (sometimes v marginal !) flying around Europe under my belt.
Got an old Comanche PA 24 with basic kit , 430, HSI etc and basic autopilot so not sure how it will work out in this new world. Any advice gratefully received !

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