Which plane to buy for EUR200k

The Bonanza is very sturdy – but you will have no problems on a grass runway with the SR22 either. It’s being done all the time

tinfoilhat wrote:

Is GPS taught at any flight school?

Yes, of course it is. It is part of the PPL syllabus (AMC1 FCL.210 & AMC1 FCL.210.A). And I have to correct myself: Substitution of GPS by ADF is allowable for skill exams (at least within our part of Germany), but has to be part of the PPL training, both on theoretical knowledge and practical flight instruction. So basically every flight school that is not teaching the use of GPS is not fulfilling Part FCL.

tinfoilhat wrote:

I have flown with 10 FIs at 5 schools in 3 countries on 2 continents and no one has ever thought fit to show me how to use the GPS.

Impressive for 100 hours. It’s good to get around.

tinfoilhat wrote:

It’s not difficult but it still takes some time to learn which buttons to press.

That is entirely NOT the point of teaching the use of GPS. To know the buttons is a matter of the device at hand. A Garmin 296 is entirely different from a Garmin 155XL or a G1000, IDF540, GTN750…

tinfoilhat wrote:

I am left to come up with my own rules.

No need. You can ask. This forum, for example, is full of useful information, if one is willing to utilize the information. Aviation doesn’t lend itself very good to find out how you can make your own errors…

tinfoilhat wrote:

OK, now we are getting personal. I don’t get it. I have been abused, belittled and patronised by a number of senior posters here.

Actually, no. If you are new in aviation you can’t know what lessons you are supposed to be taught. If anything it would have been personal for your instructors. Noone has belittled you, let alone abused (?) you. Some of these posters have a huge experience in helping people find their aircraft and defining their needs. Especially Mooney_Driver. You wouldn’t be the first one new to aviation who dreamt of completely different aircraft than those that will make them happy after all (And you would not be the last). All here do want to sincerely help and all have different views on the “task” that you have laid down. As always in aviation, there is not one answer to a question, but several options with own advantages and drawbacks.

tinfoilhat wrote:

mh, are you an FI? Here’s an experiment. Ask your students to plot LFMD – LFMA via a DR2 departure and see how many of them take the VFR route to the north.

I am and without paying attention to LFR95 my bet would be either via CNM or along the A8 to WL or WD and then direct utilizing ALM. If they had to exit via DR, some of them would plan via MUS or LU, propably LUC and more or less direct. But I can ask, provided you would be okay for them to use SkyDemon (no paper chart of that area at hand). Anyway, the Idea of VFR routes is not know in Germany so if they aren’t compulsory, they wouldn’t get much attention, I guess. But then again, Germany has a little more sane airspace structure in the first place.

tinfoilhat wrote:

If the majority take that route you can come back here and tell me again how sh%t I am.

Where do you got the impression someone wants to “tell you how sh%t” you were? That is entirely not what anyone here wrote. If there is something new to learn, there will always be a necessity to clarify one or the other item, or, yes, state different opinions. But that doesn’t mean that others won’t take you serious. Everyone has started at one point and everyone knows of that fact. Nobody here elevates himself over someone who wants to learn… on the contrary. Some pilots wish they have had this forum when they started out.

Aviation doesn’t lend itself very good to find out how you can make your own errors…

To be fair, MH, it depends on where and when someone did their primary training.

When I got my TB20 in 2002, no instructor knew how an HSI worked. There were eight fixed wing schools at EGKA back then. The KLN94? Forget it completely. So I downloaded the manuals (didn’t get anything much with a new GBP 195k+VAT TB20) and flew around at 5000ft over SE UK on autopilot and played with the buttons and the knobs until I worked it out…

So basically every flight school that is not teaching the use of GPS is not fulfilling Part FCL.

Today, maybe. Germany, maybe.

Here, UK, you would have WW3 if you tried to enforce this. The industry would go crazy because they would have to fit some panel mounted GPS into their (mostly) shagged old spamcans. Or issue and teach handhelds. Which ones? The nice handhelds are pretty expensive. Customers break (or steal) headsets, which is why all the headsets are crap. The Ipad products are beyond many people to learn (except most superficially, as a moving map) and an Ipad is not cheap either.

I would like to know how Germany deals with this. I guess one way is to increase prices I do recall one old CFI saying to me that the biggest problem with PPL training is that it is too cheap. It is a race to the bottom. This is so because there is always some old geezer willing to sit there in his wooden hut, unpaid, 9am to 9pm, in OVC002, in case the phone rings and somebody wants a birthday pleasure flight “trial lesson”. Or maybe even somebody wants to learn to fly.

Of course I would like to see modernisation but it’s very tough. About 5 years ago I spoke to one CAA head of licensing about incorporating GPS into the training and he said it is impossible; the industry would not allow it.

I don’t really want this thread to go off the rails and get overly “personal”. Tinfoil sounds to me like a high achiever (in his profession, whatever it is) who has had the standard (crap) PPL training at some past stage (just like me and most people I know) but he is lucky in having a good budget with which to extract himself from the hole and do some good stuff. So let’s all help him out!

Peter wrote:

Here, UK, you would have WW3 if you tried to enforce this.

Can you back this up with some recent data? I have a problem imagining UK FTOs all violating Part FCL training requirements. It’s clearly spelled out.

Tinfoil,

The more I read the more I think you need a 182, with G1000. With the Garmin GFC700 autopilot is best but I think you might be tight on budget.
I have very little time in them, but they are a really good solid SUV of the sky.

Whilst there is a lot of emphasis on here about range and speed a 182 is still a practical tourer and the G1000 is a splendid system for IFR flight.

Try one.

Neil

a 182, with G1000. With the Garmin GFC700 autopilot …

I don’t think you can find that for € 200 K.

Flyer59 wrote:

I don’t think you can find that for € 200 K

Thats why I wrote

With the Garmin GFC700 autopilot is best but I think you might be tight on budget

If you’re going to quote me have the decency to do so correctly

I just got the PPL this year, so I guess this is recent experience, and GPS devices were nowhere on the syllabus, that I know of, and BYOD was not an option. One of the club C152’s has a KLN89B and the extent of training I got on it was “press this button if you get lost”. Luckily I didn’t get lost enough to need it ;-)

tmo wrote:

I just got the PPL this year, so I guess this is recent experience, and GPS devices were nowhere on the syllabus, that I know of, and BYOD was not an option. One of the club C152’s has a KLN89B and the extent of training I got on it was “press this button if you get lost”. Luckily I didn’t get lost enough to need it ;-)

That really is quite tragic.

@ Neil

Yes, I quoted you wrong, because i didn’t read the rest. I hope you can forgive me