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CBIR training required

I would be really interested to hear from people how much training they required for the CBIR, particularly for a first-time pass, and their level of experience beforehand.

The reason I’m asking is I’m trying to work out out how many days I need to take off work to do it (I’ve already done the TK)

So, if anyone has done it, would love to know:

  • Did you do SEP or MEP?
  • How many hours’ dual instruction (Sim and aircraft) did it take?
  • Level of IFR experience prior to commencing the course?
  • Where did you do it?

Thank you

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Oxford EGTK

@Charlie I am an independent IRI, and have worked with a lot of students to get them from where they were (ranging from 90 mins at PPL to experienced IMCR holders) to being ready for the last 10 hours.

If you would like to go for an “assessment” flight, I can certainly give you my opinion, based on your current skills, knowledge, ability and (maybe) your learning style.

EGKB Biggin Hill

My local registered facility has an IRI and an IRR/IRE on staff. They also have a no longer approved Frasca 142 simulator. They have done two CBIR’s one required 18 further hours at an ATO the other 12 hours.

Did you do SEP or MEP? —


How many hours’ dual instruction (Sim and aircraft) did it take? —

25 hrs sim (FNPT2/full motion) and 15 hrs in the air

Level of IFR experience prior to commencing the course? —

none, some procedure training on FSX

Where did you do it? —

Aero Poznan

I believe nobody has ever done an IR (FAA or JAA/EASA) in less than 40 hours of dual training.

That’s unless they have had previous (probably unlogged, or logged but uncreditable) instrument experience. In the UK, many pilots flew on the IMCR and then did the IR with sometimes a lot less than the 50hrs originally required for the JAA IR (SE). Well, they would be ready for the test but under JAA had to pack 50hrs in their logbook anyway. Outside the UK, the IMCR has not been available but nothing stopped someone just practicing, dual or (perhaps illegally ) on their own.

My FAA IR needed some 25hrs, but I had the IMCR then and 500hrs TT. The FAA IR to JAA IR conversion took another 25hrs or so, at the 1500hr TT point. However the two IRs don’t compare; the FAA one was really tough and mostly partial-panel and with 2 flights per day in the hot Arizona air exhausting, while the JAA one was more leisurely back home and largely learning some obscure UK examiner expectations which everybody was afraid of getting caught by (to a degree unfairly).

So it really depends on where you are coming from. And of course on how good or bad you are People with an IT / technical background have a significant advantage and the majority of private IR holders do come from that background.

Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I think there is a bit more to it than that Peter. At the end of the day the amount of training required is the amount of training required. However the real plus with the CBIR is the removal of the not insignificant inconvenience that the traditional ATO only IR involves.

In the case of the two students above a traditional IR would have meant a a daily commute of just over a 100 miles. Ok that still had to be done but only for a third of the time.

Of course there is more; for example currency is a big thing so camping out in Arizona and flying 2x a day you are going to be bloody good after 2 weeks (and you will need to be bloody good for the FAA IR checkride I had).

But I still don’t think many people will do any truly ab initio IR in less than 40hrs even if they sleep at the FTO.

The CB IR allows up to IIRC 30hrs to be done with a freelance IRI which can be a great thing, depending on the details.

Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

I believe nobody has ever done an IR (FAA or JAA/EASA) in less than 40 hours of dual training.

I’d actually be surprised if that were true.

I have encountered a couple of exceptionally talented individuals who simply did, on first being told, exactly what they were asked to do, quite reliably.

I recently was amazed by a young lady who flew an ILS to minima, the needles never leaving the central ring, after 90 mins instrument time in her PPL, several long trips observing her husband, and two hours with me. She simply delivered what I asked her to do, almost like a machine.

She hasn’t completed her course, of course. Indeed she has yet to do the qualifying cross country hours, but while there are exceptionally talented people around, I wouldn’t say that 40 hours is the minimum.

But, of course, the vast majority will be as you say.

EGKB Biggin Hill

25 hours sim – 20 hours with an instructor

LFHN - Bellegarde - Vouvray France

Currently 23 hrs with instructor and slowly getting the hang of it, I’ve had to spread my training out over 9 months, and that doesn’t help. My FI says with the 10 ATO hours, I should be ready for the skill test. But I’m not that confident yet, and thats OK because I still have to complete 7 hrs for the 30 hrs.

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