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Glass cockpit vs steam gauges for low time PPL (and getting into a fast aircraft early on)

But almost every aircraft has its quirks. Cessnas feel mushy, the PA32 flies like a wet sponge, the Mooney has very little yoke travel in roll and feels like a 60s car without power steering (I quite like that, others don’t), I don’t see the SR22 stand out, neither particularly good nor bad.

I may be wrong but if there really is such a profound difference then maybe a guy like Valentin who is new to flying will have less to unlearn how a plane is “supposed” to fly vs how the Cirrus flies. He will need proper training, probably a bit more than a more experienced guy, but after that, he will know how to fly that airplane and not mix it up with 5 other types whom he has instincts for.

Today I fly exactly one type and I find that this suits me just fine.

I am actually pleased to hear that Valentin took the advice and went to fly a Cirrus and saw the advantages the type has for his particular situation. The fact that some folks now try to dissuade him is simply forum mechanics…. not the best of them, but typical. For me, in the situation he is and where he is, if it has to be a sep then Cirrus would definitly be on the top of the list.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

From another point of view. How many fresh PPL pilots continue to fly after 1-2 years? Maybe only 10-20 %. It’s important to actually like flying and all the necessary related stuff implied, and not simply do this because of some vague dream of flying (whatever that may be).

It’s easy to fall in love with “Cirrus commercial stuff”; successful dad, lovely wife and kids, happy family-life where dad is flying and mom is watching over the kids. Nothing but a surreal Barbie-like pipe dream (of course, there are exceptions). I have a feeling this is what this thread is all about, the odds are 5:1, just saying.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Valentin, maybe check out a DA40 before writing a check for an SR22? Guys, don’t forget, the OP lives on Cyprus, one of the few places I would consider a Cirrus.

Tököl LHTL

Nothing but a surreal Barbie-like pipe dream (of course, there are exceptions). I have a feeling this is what this thread is all about, the odds are 5:1, just saying.

It is the one classical commercial concept in the US for ever and it has not much to do with a Barbie like pipe dream but it is what most Americans strive for. Clearly it has changed in recent years from the say 1950ties where the classical role distribution was more accurate still, but generally Americans do aspire to this classical family and success scheme much more than Europeans ever have.

If you look at the American culture, in particular TV serials of the 1960ties and 70ties up to today in some cases, the family bit is overwhelming. And the family picture they paint is often very much more attractive than the one portrayed in similar European venues. If you focus on the social factor on series like the Waltons, Bonanza and so on or even as oddball as e.g. The Munsters or the Addams Family, you see families which are highly functional, which are based on a loving relationship between the spouses, their parents and kids. And I can not fault them for that, it is what most of us aspire too but which has become almost an oddity here in Europe. But in many areas in the US, where feminism has not destroyed many womans lifes but enriched it with additional possibilities, this is still very much a reality, as well as sometimes a burden living up to the rolemodels.

GA as well as most auto manufacturers are not aiming at the “Sex and the City” and similar trash crowd, New Yorkers and the likes have no time and interest in GA flying but the guy out in the wide areas of the mid west can definitly see how GA can make his life easier.

Cirrus has taken the advertizing out of the Chevy adds in the 1950ties and 60ties and perfected it to their own marketing line, and unlike any other have understood the wife effect in GA and successfully applied it to market their CAPS system. Nobody can fault them for that, on the opposite, they are probably the only ones who have done their marketing right in the last 30 years of new GA planes.

And they do have a point too. The CAPS system replaces the 2nd engine safety requirement for much of the GA spectrum, such as night, IMC and to an extent overwater flying, which do present a risk in a normal SEP. Particularly IMC at night an engine failure can bite massively. In the case of overwater flying a splashdown with a fixed gear plane is also more survivable as the possibility of coming down upside down almost ceases to exist.

As many have said, if I had to operate from an island like Valentin, would like the family to feel safe and enjoy flying and I had the means to afford a Cirrus, it would almost be a no brainer.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

. How many fresh PPL pilots continue to fly after 1-2 years? Maybe only 10-20 %

I take this apart from the marketing bit as it is a very important thing to discuss.

While I am not sure that i is that few people only, the fact is that the huge majority of PPLs stop flying after a few years and too many frustrations. And that is something which needs addressing in some way, as it damages the scene massively.

Reasons quoted are ammendable and there are many, but I think two or three of those mostly quoted are significant:

- huge number of cancelled flights, leading to loss of confidence both within the pilots but also within mostly their passengers (Family).
- Lack of time to sit out GA hampering conditions and generally. Almost all people I know who volontarily gave up flying quote this as the major reason. GA is time consuming and less and less people have this time. Lots of folks who have small children or who work as employees with fixed schedules simply do not find the time. I have not flown since my daughter was born 2 years ago and I don’t think I will find the time again before she is in school, combine that with a fixed work schedule which does not allow postponing flights for a day or twoand you get the idea.
- less than travel friendly rental schemes in the clubs. Anyone who wants to seriously fly basically needs his own airplane or at least one with high availability to rent, as well as generous conditions for longer trips. Hardly any club has those as they want their planes close by.

There are others, but I think the above mentioned are the main problem. Clearly, PPR burden, weather, cost and all come into it as well, but the quoted ones above are the real killers.

The ideal profile for a GA owner/pilot is someone who manages his own time, has capacity and funds to fly often and who is independent of as many things as he can be. The others need to be very much aware that a reluctant family, gruelling work schedules and so on will shut their flying down much faster than they think.

Last Edited by Mooney_Driver at 09 Sep 12:14
LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

I think GA activity is not a good fit for those with a rigid work / home life schedule. Flying at weekends only means you can’t go much beyond the local burger run.

I see this played out all the time.

They don’t tell you that in the PPL, of course

Of course you can still fly quite a bit but need to be happy with the limits.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

WhiskeyPapa wrote:

Valentin, maybe check out a DA40 before writing a check for an SR22?

I could try DA40, but I don’t understand the purpose yet. What could I realise about DA40 that would make me decide to buy it?

LCPH, Cyprus

You can still buy one and rent one, or even rent 6 of them as I am doing today to cover all my flying spectrum (build cheap hours – engine off on a TMG, availability – complex ones, want quick touring – fastest ones, from a 300m strip – tailwheels) but I guess you are settled on fast touring? so just go for the SR22 without hesitation, you need 25h to learn all of it, no point learning on DA40

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Saw this quote on the net: “Cirrus is a high performance plane sold to low performance pilots.”
While this mustn’t apply to this thread it can be worthwhile to keep in mind. The internet can be wrong but there is some common ground among GA that it “It would seem the most dangerous thing in a Cirrus is inexperienced, low time pilots with the money to buy the plane.”

Valentin wrote:

I could try DA40, but I don’t understand the purpose yet. What could I realise about DA40 that would make me decide to buy it?

The DA40 is unique because it offers very forgiving flight characteristics paired with good cruising speed and advanced avionics while being low workload (fadec controlled engine is low distracting and offers protection from pilot error, overpowering, incorrect leaning..). It is said to be the safest 4 seat plane with the fewest fatalities and has good specs should the worst case occur (16G cockpit, lower speed = low impact energy, fuel tanks = doesn’t burn after a crash and more..).

You simply might like the way it flies. You can also get air conditioning…

However, given your isolated location involving extended over water flying to get anywhere I suggest you take into account your next step after this one concerning plane purchaes.

A DA40 will be a good step stone for a DA42/62.
A Cirrus gives you the best solution right away (fast cruiser, comfort, parachute) and will be a longer lasting option before stepping up.

If I were in your shoes I’d first decide if I will fly a turbine in the future or if I’ll settle for a DA62.

I suggest the turbine route (a set is still a different league from a DA62).

DA40/62 you can be on your own sooner.
Cirrus/Turbine I’d warmly suggest thorough training and mentoring for extended times depending on the soecific flight missions (especially for the turbine).

What will make it all safer is your experience and currency in your plane. They put 150 hour pilots into large jets and it works because they get a lot of exposure, rigid training and experience quickly. That said, you could buy a turbine right away and do the same.

always learning
LO__, Austria

Snoopy wrote:

What will make it all safer is your experience and currency in your plane. They put 150 hour pilots into large jets and it works because they get a lot of exposure, rigid training and experience quickly. That said, you could buy a turbine right away and do the same.

Can’t agree more than that, after getting a PPL you can clock 50h in any SEP airplane in just one month and master it for a GA usage, later you go can slowly around flight/environment envelopes….so the real bottle necks are money, time and patience !

Same for Multi-Engines, TurboProps, Turbines…all these aircraft fly the same when engine are idle/off so just about how to and how far you will land the thing, that is an extra 50h and another month

Then as long as you stay away from fuel starvation, overweight and bad weather you will do just fine (you may bend some plastic/metal, but you need some overconfidence to learn which comes at some cost, this includes mis-managing engines life)

I really don’t think there are that many vicious certified aircraft around, just few quirks and bites here and there which you usually don’t even notice when you have enough currency (25h? 50h?), you only get caught in these once you switch from one to another

Last Edited by Ibra at 10 Sep 10:20
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom
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