Hi, first post here. First of all i would like to say good forum, with plenty of info. I came across peters website and then found a link to this forum. Thanks for making the GA community better.
Im looking to get some advice regarding my next steps as PPL. Ill make first a brief overview of my experience and desires for the future:
Facts:
1) Posses Spanish issue EASA PPL SE Piston
2) Posses English proficiency level 5
3) Posses Class 2 Spanish medical
4) Posses 150 hours total time from witch 50: C172, 50: PA28, 50: Mooney M20J
5) Posses 50 Hours PIC Cross country (more than 60nm)
6) Flown in Spain, England and Germany
7) Got my PPL Jan 2018, so flying regularly.
8) Currently im resident of the United Kingdom, London Area.
Desires:
1) I do not wish to obtain the CPL or ATPL, I only wish to fly privately.
2) I would like to fly complex airplanes, like the Mooney, and Tour Europe. Travel for example From London to Barcelona for a few days.
3) In the future one dream would be to own my airplane, but i guess something like a Mooney can be expensive so maybe more realistically would first find a good share to gain more flight experience and this goal would be left for a few years.
Conclusion:
1) this comes to the first conclusion, i need a IR to fly like this.
2) for what ive seen there are 2 IR i could get:
En route instrument rating (EIR)
Full instrument Rating (SE/IR)
3) ideally i would need to do the Theory remotely, Self study, as this would accommodate better with my job/life style.
4) I would like to Stay with EASA, so if for instance UK leaves EASA i would like all my licencese and Ratings to be from EASA
Questions
1) practically is it really worth getting the full IR for this kind of flying? or can i get away with EIR.
2) what are the differences in term of Theroy and Exams between each 2.
3) if i get EIR can i later upgrade to full IR and what would be the process
4) can you please recommend me an ATO for this rating? ideally would be in Spain with self study for the theory, and then would take time off to do the flying there.
If not can be in England, but im not sure about this since its possible UK leaves EASA next year, and also training is much more expensive in UK.
5) can you please clarify about this “rating” ? is this something extra to my license, issued by the Civil Authority? So if i have a Spanish PPL and do the IR in England this IR would be issued by the CAA? im really confused about this.
6) How is the theory exam process? similar to the PPL , in the civil authority building with multiple choice? or is it done just in the ATO?
Most Places ive esquire, specially in Spain, offer the full IR as part of the ATPL course, so you have to study and pass the ATPL theory, witch i dont want and its a lot of hassle.
I would like to obtain this IR as easy as possible, so im able to fly most of the year instead of only 6 months per year.
Thanks so much for the help and see you!
also as i just understood CB-IR i think that can also be an option
Wow very detailed post,
Personally, I will discourage any private pilot going for a 50h IR course in ATO instead of the modular CBIR route (= gives you a full IR)
I had similar doubts between 1/ CBIR route for full IR or 2/ EIR then full IR via CBIR route, but in the UK the answer is rather clearer if you have an IR(R)…I am doing TK this winter and upgrading my IR(R) to full IR with a CBIR course next spring
Questions
1) if you view EIR is just a stepping stone for CBIR by building some IFR time, then go for it
For reliable flying, just forget it, I find it difficult to plan/fly long routes with EIR compared to full IR, you have too many constraints to think of and will put you in lot of stress…
From my limited experience of IR(R) flying that is limited to UK, getting a comfortable VMC/IMC transitions is never something that goes to plan when you expect it, it always push you to fly a bit far from where you have planned in marginal VMC, I guess EIR flying will be the same a bunch of hit and miss left and right of the track, you simply don’t have to deal with this with a full IR
2) what are the differences in term of Theroy and Exams between each 2.
None, you need the same TK exams for EIR and CBIR (more difficult exams if you go full IR course)
3) if i get EIR can i later upgrade to full IR and what would be the process
You can go via CBIR if you had some IR experience or more expensive restart with 50h IR course
4) can you please recommend me an ATO for this rating?
In Spain, have you checked around Jerez (don’t know them but almost went there last year)
In UK, there is a lot of choices around
5) can you please clarify about this “rating” ? is this something extra to my license, issued by the Civil Authority? So if i have a Spanish PPL and do the IR in England this IR would be issued by the CAA? im really confused about this.
I doubt UK CAA, will put a rating on your Spanish licence (to get a TMG by UK CAA on EASA PPL, I had to convert my French PPL to UK CAA, a very easy process just need to get your medicals records held by UK CAA, but in my case the route to get the TMG rating grandfathered is more bonker that just EASA only rules)
6) How is the theory exam process? similar to the PPL , in the civil authority building with multiple choice? or is it done just in the ATO?
It has to be an approved course and specific exam places, so not in the ATO building
5) can you please clarify about this “rating” ? is this something extra to my license, issued by the Civil Authority? So if i have a Spanish PPL and do the IR in England this IR would be issued by the CAA? im really confused about this.
The CBIR, EIR and “regular” IR are all EASA ratings. When you do the exam in the UK, make sure that you inform the examiner beforehand that you have a Spanish-issued EASA PPL. He might need to do a bit of work with the Spanish authorities to get prior approval. EASA publishes a really detailed book that lists all the requirements from all the authorities for all exams. Your examiner should be familiar with this.
After the exam is over, you send the paperwork directly to the Spanish authorities, who will then issue you a new EASA license with the (E)IR added to it. So the UK CAA is not involved at all.
Two caveats though.
1. The IR(R) (formerly known as IMC rating) is a UK only rating. If you want to do this as an intermediate step, then it can only be issued by the UK CAA. Obviously they can add it to a UK-issued EASA license, but I think (not sure) that for non-UK-issued EASA licenses they provide you with some sort of addendum. Check this beforehand if relevant.
2. Brexit. Completely unclear what’s going to happen in less than 200 days time, but worst case scenario is that the UK leaves EASA altogether with no mutual recognition of licenses, certificates and whatnot. In practice this is then going to mean that UK-issued EASA licenses become UK National licenses overnight, only suitable for flying G-regs. And non-UK-issued licenses can no longer be used to fly G-regs. The same would apply to instructors and examiners. Hopefully this scenario is not going to become reality but in all honesty, nobody has any clue what is going to happen yet.
yes i think that is what will happen.
Thanks for all the answers ill read more in detail.
I do not have IR(R) and i do not wish to obtain it and i believe its not even possible for a Spanish issued PPL.
IR(R) is very limiting, UK only , im not UK citizen but EU citizen and im only working in uk at the moment, so i want all my licenses and ratings to be EASA/EU
for what i see the best option is CB-IR.
so the CB-IR is a separated license? meaning a new paper?
Ive seen the FLY IN SPAIN website that looks like they give what i want but they dont have very good reputation
Another option would be to do the theory with an UK company remotely like https://www.catsaviation.com/courses/ir , do the theroy exams in uk and the go to spain to fly and get the license issued after the practical exam
is that even posible?
thanks again
Just go for the full IR. EIR is going to have limited use. Not only that, it will cause a lot of extra stress, with enroute constant worrying and checking on destinations, alternates etc.
Welcome to EuroGA, AleNovo 
UK-issued EASA licenses become UK National licenses overnight, only suitable for flying G-regs
Just a small point: also for any aircraft registry which allows ICAO licenses e.g. the FAA (FAR 61.3) – directly, implictly, or via a validation. For example, what process does France have in place for flying an F-reg on an Australian or American PPL?
Another option would be to do the theory with an UK company remotely like https://www.catsaviation.com/courses/ir , do the theroy exams in uk and the go to spain to fly and get the license issued after the practical exam is that even posible?
Currently you can do the exams and the flying parts in different EU countries. How or whether this will change post-brexit, one can’t tell. But CATS is a popular option for private pilots doing the IR and the exam passes you will get will be certainly EASA-compliant if you do the exams before brexit.
Just go for the full IR. EIR is going to have limited use. Not only that, it will cause a lot of extra stress, with enroute constant worrying and checking on destinations, alternates etc.
Agree 100%. The EIR is more or less useless, except for people flying particular profiles, and UK pilots who can use it quite well in conjunction with the IMCR to get continuous IFR privileges all the way to the tarmac at the UK end.
AleNovo wrote:
so the CB-IR is a separated license? meaning a new paper?
CB-IR is just a modular route for IR (simply put how you get it at the end it is a full IR), it will get stamped on your licence in page XII under both ratings and revalidations as “Instrument – CB IR” or “IR SE – CB IR” similar to other Class/Type/IR ratings: “SEP(land) – Nil”, “IR – restricted to blabla…”
Peter wrote:
For example, what process does France have in place for flying an F-reg on an Australian or American PPL?
France used to allow FAA guys to fly F-regs in French territory for PPL level privileges, things may have changed since EASA aircraft concept has been introduced but the DGAC did always managed to virtually keep what it want under the rug 
Peter wrote:
and UK pilots who can use it quite well in conjunction with the IMCR to get continuous IFR privileges all the way to the tarmac at the UK end.
EIR and IRR are quite complementary, on the way back this may work very well
However, as the training syllabus for EIR is less understood it will certainly take more than 10h in ATO to get it
So not sure that many UK pilots will have it as they would have changed their mind mid-way or after 10h and go for full IR via CBIR route…
Third country licences are also accepted by the Irish Aviation Authority for non-commercial operations without needing to go through an Annex III process.
UK licences, so-called national licences, can be obtained under art 152 of the UK Air Navigation Order which followed by a change of state of Part-FCL licence issue to the likes of Ireland can be done before UK potentially leaves EASA.
Just a point about the mission profile mentioned.
In the real world, many trans European flights are difficult because of the real weather, not just the pilot’s ratings. The limitation is in the aircraft, not just the pilot. FIKI and strong winds are just examples. Just look at my question about bird sanctuaries – climbing into IMC would have given a ground speed too slow to ever reach my destination, and the freezing level would be below somewhere in a plane with no icing capability.
As someone who flies extensively VFR, I strongly recommend flying long VFR trips as part of the learning curve to getting IR (expensive) and an aeroplane capable of actually flying that type of mission (very, very expensive).
In real life, my VFR dispatch rate has proven reasonable (+/- 1-2 days) and IR with a capable plane (that I could afford) would have given maybe a 50% improvement, not a 100% solution.
