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Stuttgart to Sitia LGST, Crete

Yes, that was pretty much my route aswell Peter, only that I flew to LGIR. With my Warrior (105 KTAS) that was a pretty long overwater leg.

I was just telling my expericence, no prejudice here. We even have an appartment in Heraklion, and we love to go there. But how would you call it when they tell you (in LGIR) that Avgas is € 4 and when you ask for a price list the price is reduced to € 3. I simply don't like that.

I never saw that sort of thing in Greece (at airports, with fuel) but that was one reason why people were recommending the AIR BP card. It didn't matter where in the world you used it; the billing was done centrally and you could not be scammed by the locals.

I got the card early on, and it was good in the good old days when you could turn up at a Spanish airport, wave it around, saying "commercial" 3 times, and you got duty free and VAT free avgas

It has not worked for at least 5 years and actually almost nobody takes it these days. Every airport I've been to takes Visa or M/Card now.

That trick never worked in Greece, and of course never worked in N Europe. They all ask to see the AOC.

It could not have been easy flying around Greece in a Warrior, with such a short range. I suppose, from Megara, you can reach most places there.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

-Since ages,Greek governments (we the people) had let the public sector to overgrow.

-Public sector needs more and more tax & lended money to keep going.

-Instead of improving the citizens quality of life,it created a legal monster of million laws,regulations,revisions and cancelations (now daily) who confuse citizens and administrators, leading to bottlenecks ,inconsistency,insufficiency and corruption.

-But public sector represents the most powerful mass of fanatic voters.Employment,obscure payments,massive strikes and construction contracts they all interpolated each other.

-For sure they managed to destroy school education by removing or falsifying i.e. geography,history,classic greek and letting anarchy develop inside institutions.Parents,teachers,professors,journalists,populists,they all gave a hand for this.

-Now Achimha ,what illiteracy you met in Sitia,we the Greek aviators, see every day around.Been used to that.This is why we became the least desired country for investments.

-Similar stories come from Skopje,Serbia,S.Italy,Spain,Turkey,Egypt etc.

-South is South.Just count how many out of 160 U.N.countries are well organized,well governed ,populated by rich,educated,happy citizens.?

LGGG

Actually, Peter, ther Warrior's range is not THAT bad... +500 NM, or 5 hrs endurance plus 30-45 minutes. Now with the SR22 (about 1000 NM) it will all be easier, of course!

South is South.Just count how many out of 160 U.N.countries are well organized,well governed ,populated by rich,educated,happy citizens.?

I would have thought that Greeks are mostly educated and happy - compared to e.g. Brits who suffer an appalling level of adult illiteracy and spend say 4hrs/day driving to/from work, doing mostly jobs which are stressful and unsatisfying. I have interviewed a fair number of people who were spending £7k/year on train tickets to London, out of a takehome pay of say 30k. That's not a happy life... And they have crap weather

But yes South is South and it will never change - despite the failed "European integration experiment".

Just my opinion

Actually, Peter, ther Warrior's range is not THAT bad... +500 NM, or 5 hrs endurance plus 30-45 minutes. Now with the SR22 (about 1000 NM) it will all be easier, of course!

I thought a PA28-161 is about 600nm to zero fuel, which is probably what you are saying. Normally that is plenty but not enough to fly from say Corfu to any Greek island (with no avgas) and back. The TB20 (1300nm to zero fuel) makes it easy, but you still need to plan trips a bit differently to a turboprop or a diesel.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

MedFlyer, there's some truth in what you write. Having a Croatian mother on one side and an appartment in Heraklion on the other I can very well relate to what you say.

I just returned from a month of vacatiion (airline) on Crete with my family. And I had the feeling this time that I could really not feel a change to the better.

THe first taxi you enter at LGIR airport: no receipt ("you have to say you want a receipt before")... Then you spend 2 weeks in a hotel on the southern coast and the owner tells you that you can't pay with the credit card and that he wants it all in cash to avoid taxes.

I admit that I do feel a bit stupid as a german in a greek hotel beeing forced by them to help them evade the tax. They are very nice people so we agreed to pay half with the card and half in cash ... and since we're globetrotters and my wife speaks greek we get along fine. But it is really wrong from my point of view.

Peter,

actually mine is a PA-28-151 and the precise range is about 580 NM (182 Liter, average is 33 l/h). It is okay to get to Crete from Corfu but of course not back. Too bad I couldn't get car fuel there becasue my Warrior (150 hp version) has an STC for auto fuel.

I still have that plane... and wonder if i should keep it (my father bought it when i was 18!). It has great avionics (GNS430, GMA340, GTX330, S-TEC30+, GPSS, JP-450 Fuel Computer ....)

Medflyer - your description very concisely describes the problem of excess government... anywhere it allowed to happen. It should be a lesson to us all.

If I were paying at that Greek hotel, I would ask to pay 100% in cash and know it is the right thing - taxes feed the parasitic monster that creates the problems and destroys initiative. The only way it can lose weight is by starvation. And OBTW, the exact same thing happens in German hotels every day to my 101% certain, personal knowledge.

Silvaire, well I've been a german for 54 years now and I have never ever heard of such a thing that a hotel owner forces you to pay in cash - and gives you NO RECEIPT for a 2 week stay. I am not saying that there is no tax evasion in Germany, but you don't want to compare Germany and Greece in this matter, do you?

Why would it be correct that european tax money is sent to Greece in the BILLIONS while i as a tourist am forced to help them evade their tax?

Silvaire, well I've been a german for 54 years now and I have never ever heard of such a thing that a hotel owner forces you to pay in cash - and gives you NO RECEIPT for a 2 week stay. I am not saying that there is no tax evasion in Germany, but you don't want to compare Germany and Greece in this matter, do you?

Yes, very much so. Both are vastly overburdened by government from my point of view, as is the entire EU and slowly, increasingly the US too. The results are the same, as described by Medflyer in Greece, but the same anywhere. I only hope that we in my adopted homeland can turn it around and I wish the EU luck in doing the same.

In Germany hotel owners in my direct, repeated experience ask you politely if you would like a €10 discount for cash payment... After you've been a regular customer for a while. Same thing, shades of grey, and I support it.

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