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Tablet reliability in the cockpit, and terrain avoidance using GPS

Off topic posts moved from here
Some may appear disjointed but I did my best. For new topics, please start a new thread.

Mooney_Driver wrote:

However, in today’s reality, tablets with Sky Demon or Easy VFR are WIDELY used even by flight schools and I’ve seen them used even during PPL exams. Hardly anyone I know has their approach charts in paper binders still, everyone uses either Jeppesen or a similar software also on board. I print out the charts for my operational airports and carry a Samsung Tablett for the rest. FWIW the Samsung has never yet shut down.

I use a Samsung tablet as EFB and for situational awareness when flying aircraft without a moving map display. It has never shut down on me. I won’t use it for actual navigation, though, except in an emergency.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

I can’t recal my iPad Air 2 losing signal (even in a TB20 but only did about 20h). For my backup iPad I used to use a Dual GPS160, which worked perfectly. Put it on the front of canopy and it shouldn’t get obscured.

With the iPad Air, I can even get fairly steady signal from the inside of an airliner, if sitting at a window seat

Mooney_Driver wrote:

Almost all airlines I know have their charts on Ipads. If their failure rate was so extreme as some of you hint, I can’t see any competent authority legalizing this.

Airconditioned cabin and two devices …

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

To have dual tabletts on bord should not really be a problem these days… they don’t cost much. I actually have that capability now, 2 tabletts which run Jeppesen TC on Android parallel. If one should go down, the other one will be available. Most times I’ve seen people fly with those, each of them had a device, so that is two already.

In my case, I have the panel mounted WAAS GNS, which is of limited use to VFR but which drives the AP and therefore will have the full flight plan programmed, the GPS695 yoke mounted, the two android tabs which have Jeppesen and Easy VFR available to run, as well as my mobile phone (android) which can run Easy VFR as well. The main reason I don’t use EVFR more is space. As I said, I want to upgrade my EFD1000 to Synthetic Vision in the very near future.

I lost GPS coverage many times in South Germany (Bavaria) with the portable Garmins, never yet on the panel mounted Garmin and much less on the Samsung Tabs. I’ve never had a Samsung Tab shut down on me yet.

Obviously I won’t bet my life on any of those. But the fact is that such devices with VFR navigation apps are very widely in use these days and many people do not carry paper backups. Even Jeppesen seems to trend that way, seeing that they abandoned their VFR GPS charts in favour of Jeppesen Flight Deck.

I reckon sooner or later we will see some regulation which will say under which conditions and how VFR pilots may or may not rely on such devices. At the same time, someone flying a G1000 or Aspen Cockpit with panel mounted GTN/GNS systems will probably use such devices primarily as chart displays, which is what they are quite easy to use for. I also think the risk there is relatively small, as if they are used for that, they won’t run all the time and failure rate should be less.

I’ve just taken posession of a CIBE A5155 Tablet to test… I wonder how well it’s gonna do. Jeppesen TC runs fine and I inted to use it as backup to my older Samsung 10.1.

LSZH, Switzerland

I can perfectly understand what-nexts comments regarding the use of iPads in a professional / commercial environment. I use it myself for VFR with Jeppesen, garmin pilot and skydemon, and they’re all good for situational awareness, for position communication, for logging the flight, and many of these things.
But I haven’t once used in my IR training, and quite frankly, the airliner pilot who trains me doesn’t seem to miss it. The way I see it – if you want a GPS and terrain warning, you need 100% reliable accuracy in all three dimensions. Flying VFR, of course it gives me a lot of information, but then, I can look out of the window and see everything myself. And for the altitude I still use the altimeter.
But in IFR, or even IMC, I won’t want to rely on the maybe correct, maybe incorrect altitude information of a consumer product GPS module and its software. That’s not good enough for me. Especially in the mountains, where the signals could be reflected or covered… Not good enough. If it would be so easy all these signal augmentation wouldn’t be needed, would it.

EDLN, Germany

Emir wrote:

an Ipad2 and I can guarantee that it will shut down in a warm cockpit

Not only this. But ForeFlight crashes for me in any other flight.

That’s a very interesting question. Considering the Seneca I as an airplane for me at the moment, it would be a very useful tool in case of an engine failure over the alps and OEI max altitude of about 5000ft. I’ve seen some iPad based apps which have this as well but they are probably even less accurate?

LSZH, LSZF, Switzerland

Lucius wrote:

Not only this. But ForeFlight crashes for me in any other flight.

Seriously? So far never happened to me.

apps which have this as well but they are probably even less accurate

The app will be accurate, more than enough. As others have pointed out, it is the data it uses that determine success or failure.

EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

Jan_Olieslagers wrote:

The app will be accurate, more than enough. As others have pointed out, it is the data it uses that determine success or failure.

That’s what I meant. No app will have a 50GB database, but on the other hand they don’t need as detailed information as X-Plane.

LSZH, LSZF, Switzerland
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