Airborne_Again wrote:
Exactly! So my question remains. I think I did everything correctly once things started to go wrong, but would really have liked to not get into that situation in the first place.
Well if you think you did everything correctly, and you feel you covered all bases, not much else you could do. You handled the situation, there are lots of elements that could have conspired to get you there in the first place, and the same events may never happen again. A one off event..Airborne_Again wrote:
All your suggestions are sensible, but taken to the letter they would mean that flying from a grass airfield with a short runway (such as the 630 m runway at my home airfield) shouldn’t be done when thermal activity is likely. After the fact, I was considering that too, but it does seem to me to be going a bit too far.
I really do not think I suggested that..
what_next wrote:
1200ft is nothing, really. Maybe a stupid question, but could it be that you inadvertently crossed the controls while taking care of the crosswind during takeoff? I’ve seen that a lot with students. The tiniest little bit of sideslip can ruin your climb, especially with flaps extended.
That’s a good question, really! When starting the take-off run in a strong crosswind you do have crossed controls – ailerons into the wind and rudder in the opposite direction to prevent weathervaning. I reduce both progressively and neutralise them as the aircraft leaves the ground. Then the aircraft weathervanes to approximately the right heading to continue tracking the runway. I would think that I have enough experience to not inadvertently keep the controls crossed, but you never know…
JasonC wrote:
When you noticed the aircraft bogging down, did you have enough runway remaining to land again?
When I first got the stall warning, yes. When I had accelerated and noticed the aircraft wouldn’t climb, no.
Hi,
Good thing all went well. I also have a background in gliding and glider towing and thermal activity can really create not microburst but at least “nanoburst” in low levels. in hindsight runway 28 would have stacked the deck more in your favour. Headwind component to start with and the wind would have turned to higher degrees with altitude increasing your headwind as you climbed both in strength and direction. At least in theory.. :) Otherwise you did what you should in a excellent manner and the outcome was a happy one, That is the only thing that counts.
BeechBaby wrote:
I really do not think I suggested that..
No, you didn’t, but I had been thinking along similar lines as you did. I didn’t see any obvious way to avoid this situation other than having (much) larger runway margins.
what_next might be onto something!
I never use crossed controls when departing with crosswind. Only ailerons. Maximum at the start, and slowly reducing when speed increases…
mcrdriver wrote:
in hindsight runway 28 would have stacked the deck more in your favour.
Yes. That’s a thing I could (and in the future will) do differently. 1100 m taxi to 28 would not be a big deal. Also, in this particular case it would have been a more direct departure and I would have been out over the sea in about one minute – no thermals there.
If ATC had reported a gust factor, I would certainly not have used runway 10 with a strong crosswind from the right. I guess ATC offered 10 rather than 28 because I was parked closed to the beginning of 10.
I never use crossed controls when departing with crosswind. Only ailerons. Maximum at the start, and slowly reducing when speed increases…
You do however have to use the rudder to steer the aircraft. Only when fully airborne can the rudder be straightened and the ailerons only be used after that.
I was always taught to use down-aileron into wind during departure. However it probably doesn’t make a lot of difference, and one can easily get lazy in a TB20 because there is so much power that it’s all over in a few seconds anyway. You could take off with the landing flap if you wanted to…
So any departure uses crossed controls initially.
Unless I misunderstand…
I agree that during ground roll there will be crossed controls, however at rotation speed my ailerons are straightened.
I learned to start with full ailerons into the wind, and slowly reduce aileron input as speed increases.
Once airborne I use only rudder for corrections, in order to keep wings level at low altitude.
Yes – except probably no need for full ailerons. That’s a lot of drag. But that will probably be type dependent. The ailerons are needed only to the extent required to maintain wings-level, and one can see that on the AI. This is a bit tricky since one is not likely to be watching the AI during takeoff, but that IMHO is the basic idea.
