Peter wrote:
I have been flying IFR for 10 years and don’t recall getting this issue.
I have never seen this either.
Peter that is a great link. Even now its too much information to absorb and Ive been flying here for 3 yrs. Has great info.
Michael welcome to Europe. We on CPA miss your wonderfully intelligent contributions.
One of the other posters referred to me I guess as the one having a bit of difficulty in acclimating to the European way of doing things as well as some people’s mindset.
Here is what I would recommend. Get Rocket Route they have coverage from N America for your Transatlantic flight. They now have a service that includes Handling.
When I crossed it was for free or rather part of their subscription. Made life a lot easier with them calling ahead and getting things like Tower telephone numbers and fees etc. Also they have airport plates App, Sids and Stars.You need that here because even though its a one runway airport with 2 flights a day and the SID is as simple as "maintain runway heading till 2000’ then contact departure on X freq. They will just tell you for example 2golf departure. I have Jepp nav data which I use on my G600 and G430W it shows the routing of the SID but not the Altitudes. That is where the paper chart comes in that is downloadable from RR.
As some have mentioned the most frustrating part is not the use of ATC but the airports themselves. Some are very restrictive especially if you fly to some of the islands of Greece. Opening hours in particular. Nonsense rules like parking restrictions, PPR and the like. Even though Greece is part of Schengen you would still need to clear customs and immigration as well . But your RR handler will alert you to this in any case.
What are you planning to do? What countries to visit and how long?
Before I forget make sure you have a noise certificate because the German airport officals take delight in banging you the highest landing fee if you dont ave one. But with an MU2 it might be a mute point. Thats a play on words.
C210_Flyer wrote:
the German airport officals take delight in banging you the highest landing fee if you dont ave one. But with an MU2 it might be a mute point.
Probably true. The Mu2 must be the noisiest aircraft in it’s category, so it will be the highest landing fee with or without noise certificate.
In any case, make sure you have some contacts of companies who are qualified to perform maintenance on a N-registered Mu2 in Europe. There are very few of these airplanes left over here (on is based where I am, but German registered, so probably on a different maintenance scheme).
You are welcome in EKRK (Copenhagen Roskilde).
http://www.rke.dk/en/
Recently named the best business airport.
https://www.cph.dk/en/about-cph/press/news/roskilde-airport-named-best-business-airport/
Fairly low charges compared to Copenhagen Kastrup.
The Mu2 must be the noisiest aircraft in it’s category, so it will be the highest landing fee with or without noise certificate.
Not necessarily so. The MU2 in flight is fairly quiet and my understanding is that when the noise signature is measured.
In any case, make sure you have some contacts of companies who are qualified to perform maintenance on a N-registered Mu2 in Europe.
There is an MU2 service center in Sweden.
The MU2 is likely not to need any servicing in any case. It is very reliable.
There are very few of these airplanes left over here
As of 2012, 17 were listed as being in Europe. 9 in Sweden, 4 in Germany were the two largest clumpings.
Mike C.
Peter wrote:
As stated, ATC cannot cancel IFR for you (these IFR rules hardly differ between the USA and Europe) but when you have the occassional ATCO working right on the edge of his/her English language skills, misunderstandings are more likely to happen.I have been flying IFR for 10 years and don’t recall getting this issue.
Neither have I, but what does happen is that when your destination is a VFR-only airport, you have to cancel eventually and ATC might effectively request this earlier than you would like. (E.g. by saying that you won’t get an IFR clearance beyond point XXX or below level LLL where you feel that XXX/LLL is unnecessarily early/high.)
Yes; in countries where one cannot file “I” to certain airports (ones which don’t have an IAP) one has to cancel IFR at some point, and ATC will “increasingly encourage” you to do so.
In the UK this is not an issue; you can file “I” to your farm strip.
But the more basic point is that even if you don’t [have to] cancel IFR on the radio, your original IFR clearance loses any practical meaning once you are in Class G. The only options you have are
but without re-entering CAS
In the USA you must have the same issue, but AFAIK
Probably the biggest single difference is that in the USA you can enter Class D with just a two way radio call (your tail number must be read back to you by ATC). For B and C you have to get an explicit clearance (maybe not for C?). Funnily enough the “two way radio call” is more or less what France operates but there it is because their ATC is breaking the rules, not because it is correct.
certain airports (ones which don’t have an IAP) one has to cancel IFR at some point, and ATC will “increasingly encourage” you to do so.
In the UK this is not an issue; you can file “I” to your farm strip.
True, but the UK equivalent to "being urged to cancel IFR early " is “being thrown out if CAS early”.
the UK equivalent to "being urged to cancel IFR early " is “being thrown out if CAS early”.
Yes, though ATC takes the view that you need to land sometime, so why not descend anyway?
There have been some spectacularly bad procedures in the past (e.g. ATC dumping you out of CAS down to 2400ft and making you fly 50-100nm at 2300ft) but these are getting rare today. I think a lot of asses had been kicked over this, probably often over flights of foreign pilots who got really spooked by what they got. Nevertheless the CAS structure around London (Class A down to 2500ft, and dense jet traffic to LGW and LHR) means that some version of “getting dumped” is inevitable if your destination is OCAS and around London.
A lot of this is whether you set up a “fait accompli” for ATC. If you approach the London TMA at say FL070, in a C152, and your destination is the other side of it, then they will assume you can’t just pop up to FL100 and they will have to dump you – because of the jet traffic. If you approach at say FL150-FL250 then they will integrate you into their workflow. There are reserved LTMA crossings N-S at FL090/FL100. A fairly big factor here is the refusal of many IR holders to use oxygen…
Mike isn’t going to be flying at FL070 in a MU-2 but if he wants to land at Blackbushe he will need to have the VFR chart ready
In the UK this is not an issue; you can file “I” to your farm strip.
I have done that in the US, both for IFR arrival and departure, including a void time, from literally a farmer’s field.
they have some other stuff e.g. the “clearance void” concept for departures which doesn’t exist in Europe
So, how do you get an IFR clearance at a small airport with low clouds? Do you just launch into the clouds and stay in class G? How do you know where class G ends laterally and vertically?
Here in the US, you call ATC via phone or sometimes there is a clearance radio, they give you a clearance on the ground, and you then start flying. You have a particular time window in which you takeoff or your clearance becomes void, hence we call these “void times”.
It is extremely atypical for an IFR flight to start by taking off into IMC in class G in the US. I would wager that most US pilots even think that is illegal. It will usually only get you to 700 AGL anyway around any airport with an IAP, and 1200 AGL otherwise, where class E starts.
Mike C.
