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The complete charade of Eurocontrol IFR routings

I think that it is very fair to say “Busting airspaces with skydemon is not so likely”. Not impossible, but unlikely. It is pretty good with opening hours and NOTAM activation.

EGKB Biggin Hill

How did you file (i.e. what service)? And an I or Z plan?

EuroFPL.

EGKA DCT SITET A34 LGL A5 NTS A25 LUSON DCT LFBH
FL100

“I” plan.

Last Edited by Peter at 15 Jul 20:30
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

If I understand the UK AIP correctly, EUCHZMFP EUCBZMFP should be enough for such a plan.

Maybe manually adding EGZYIFPS or EGZYVFRT might help?

LSZK, Switzerland

Quote I also don’t like the russian roulette which you get in low level UK Class G, 1500-2000ft, with half the traffic nontransponding (many intentionally turn them off).

I fly only VFR, mostly as high as I can (up to 10k). I can’t remember that last time I was at 1500 – 2000ft. And why would anyone intentionally turn of the the transponder?? Never ever heard of anyone doing that?

And why would anyone intentionally turn of the the transponder?? Never ever heard of anyone doing that?

Until maybe 5 years ago, the Swiss AIP only mandated the transponder to be turned on above 7000ft, and advice was given to turn it off below. Furthermore, approaching LSZH VFR, you were told by ATC to switch off the transponder. The reason was that Skyguides Radar Processor could only track a limited number of aircraft, and when it was overloaded it lost aircraft tracks randomly. So someone switching on his transponder in a C152 might have caused the radar track of a B747 in short final to LSZH to be lost. Apparently they have a new radar processor now that doesn’t have this problem.

LSZK, Switzerland

There is a tiny population of maverick pilots in the UK who turn off Mode C so that evidence cannot be gathered from Mode C data for an infringement prosecution. If they mention this aberrant, antisocial and dangerous behaviour either in the club bar or on a forum, they get pounced on and savaged, and the population of people doing that is, I believe, now trivially small.

To say “(many intentionally turn them off)” is a massive exaggeration. It is now a negligible problem.

EGKB Biggin Hill

To say “(many intentionally turn them off)” is a massive exaggeration. It is now a negligible problem.

From how many “shiny new planes” or “planes obviously used for IFR unless the owner just likes to waste money” (which therefore obviously have a transponder) pass me pretty damn close but don’t show up on my TCAS, I don’t agree it is negligible.

Also I get the same sort of % with “altitude unknown” traffic reported to me by a radar unit – well at least those I manage to spot.

Perhaps, we could end up debating what % of those pilots can’t find the transponder on/off switch…

I also don’t think most pilots, or even most pilots who may be doing this, post in any forum or hang out in any airport bar. Actually I am pretty sure that there is a significant negative correlation between that group and being based at an “airport” of any kind

Also remember the massive “civil liberties” outcry (to do with the perceived risk of being tracked, etc) when Mode S was originally introduced. Those pilots are not feeling any different about it.

I can’t remember that last time I was at 1500 – 2000ft.

I too avoid that band, for the reason given, but often one cannot avoid flying at ~2300ft under the 2500ft Class A base. Whereas if one goes Eurocontrol IFR, one normally (especially if UK south coast based) gets a rapid climb into CAS.

For nontrivial trips, IFR dramatically reduces the preflight planning workload. Now, most of the work is contacting the airport(s) and checking PNR, Customs, opening times, etc.

I would never fly long VFR trips with just Skydemon. If that device packs up (which definitely does happen – numerous pilots have reported crashes) then you have nothing. And not many people will have SD on two devices, with the 2nd one ready to go.

Sadly, getting an IR has always been a big step and it remains so. And the yearly revalidation flight is not going away, and that’s another couple of hundred quid plus the cost of the aircraft for an hour or two.

Last Edited by Peter at 16 Jul 15:29
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I always have SD on two devices – an iPad and an Android Phablet. I don’t think that that few people don’t have access to a second device if they need it.

EGKB Biggin Hill

IMHO it would be a bit daft to argue VFR v. IFR and use the fact that SD exists as a supporting case for VFR.

IFR and VFR offer such massively different capabilities and ways of getting the job done.

I too have the VFR charts for all of Europe running on a tablet, and I’ve had in one form or another (mostly bootleg scanned maps in those days) that since 2004, and would have never gone all the way to Crete without it, but that isn’t going to make me go VFR on any significant trip. I did a little trip to La Rochelle this week and the planning was measured in minutes.

But France and Germany are bad examples for this debate, because VFR in them is fairly easy, in good weather i.e. you don’t need to go VMC on top and fairly high. These countries have nice clean airspace. The rest of Europe is mostly harder for VFR – at least when you look at the charts and start working out a route.

Sure – everybody who can afford to fly can afford two Ipads etc. Or ten Ipads. But how many actually do? I wouldn’t bother. It means two things to keep charged, for a start.

Last Edited by Peter at 16 Jul 16:10
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

My phone is always charged so that I can use it as, um, a phone!

And I use SD as much for IFR as VFR; it is equally effective for both.

EGKB Biggin Hill
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