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The quirks of flying in the UK - so funny

Hmmmm, Deconfliction Service was instigated in 2008, basically replacing Radar Advisory Service. Non-crew access to cockpits was implemented some 5 years earlier.

Fly safely
Various UK. Operate throughout Europe and Middle East, United Kingdom

In the UK especially we make an almost complete distinction between almost all GA and CAT. CAT receives the same service it expects pretty much world wide, whereas GA receives just about as limited a service as can be justified. The air space and infrastructure is then defined so as to preserve that distinction as much as possible. At the other extreme, in the States almost no such distinction exists. In other parts of the world it seems to me from my own experience and from the experience of others just about every blend exists in between. I guess it is focused on “controlling” pesky GA for various reasons including cost and security. We do that pretty well here at every layer whether in be on the ground or in the air. In parts of Europe that is almost equally the case, in other parts much less so. After a while I think you just give up caring, and as someone said earlier you ask and accept the best service on offer. Sometimes it is frustrating to stand the cost of CAT centred airports where their location happens to suit your needs especially when you can land at Miami International and enjoy great hospitality and pay £30 but the unwritten agenda is to preserve this distinction.

Dave_Phillips wrote:

Non-crew access to cockpits was implemented some 5 years earlier.

Not widely implemented though. I have done jumpseat flights on 3 different european airlines from different countries (south / centre / north, before someone claims “southern laxism”) – one of them even allowed me to do the cleared for takeoff call (after asking if I had a radio licence). (I’m obviously not counting seating in the copilot seat on an Aurigny flight from Jersey to Dinard )
But it’s true that it seems to be very strictly enforced on UK based airlines (the BA captain I told this to had a hard time believe it), and in almost all the cases, crews tell you that you can’t be in the cockpit on UK airspace / tell you you can come but after take off “because sometimes they watch from the tower with binoculars”.

Dave_Phillips wrote:

Hmmmm

Can’t remember the year but I do remember the subject (and the airline, aircraft etc.)

As to foreigners not understanding the UK system.



see from 13.10

This is by the way same as what the airline pilots told me – we just read it back.

pmh
ekbr ekbi, Denmark

Having “discovered” these pilots about two months ago, and branding them as “d1ckheads” in my mind, I quickly got hooked and watched all of their vlogs of their flight around the world. I changed my view as things progressed, and I must admit the question I asked myself was how the hell did they fund it? They certainly have a very relaxed way of conducting themselves but I must congrtulate them on completing their journey.

As for petakas quote below, I must disagree. Their vlogs were posted very soon after each flight and they did not have the facilities to do a lot of sophisticated editing. Their incomprehention at being asked to “pass your message” is genuine, not staged.

petakas wrote:

I have a feeling the video was intentionally made this way with intended pun to point out differences in UK and the weird part of the story.
Their comparison standard seems to be not the average European FIR but US airspace.

I just wished that the videos of the flying were more GA pilot interesting, details of the weather etc etc, but the videos were contructed by Louis the non pilot who was making a general interest video showing different cultures/people etc
If you look at any of their other videos of the world flight, you will see many times when they are not sure what the controller is trying to say.
As a UK pilot, I find there are many situations where after asking the controller to repeat his message, I still don’t understand, so I fake it.
Hats off to them inspite of my initial reaction.

Propman
Nuthampstead , United Kingdom

Propman wrote:


Having “discovered” these pilots about two months ago, and branding them as “d1ckheads” in my mind, I quickly got hooked and watched all of their vlogs of their flight around the world. I changed my view as things progressed, and I must admit the question I asked myself was how the hell did they fund it? They certainly have a very relaxed way of conducting themselves but I must congrtulate them on completing their journey.

The original Matt Guthmiller solo flight around the world was as I understand it funded by a very capable fund raising campaign conducted by Matt himself, who is a 0.0001 % top of the heap kind of individual who at a scarily early age had that sort of thing figured out in parallel with attending MIT, the highest rated engineering university in the US. Matt’s parents and family appeared to me to be absolutely basic people, I’d imagine somewhat in awe of what he was doing.

So I’d assume the more recent flights are being conducted on the same basis: raw talent at an early age attracting funding from people who like promoting raw talent at an early age. There are advantages to being very smart and young/cute at the same time Most people are old and ugly before they’re smart…

I’m sure there’s an element of showmanship in their videos, but I’d guess its spontaneous not staged.

(A friend of mine is associated with the owner of the Bonanza that Matt leased to fly around the world, and trained him to fly it IFR prior to that flight)

Last Edited by Silvaire at 17 Jan 04:15

Even though I know how it works in the UK, I fully plan on acerbically asking them to give me “the service where I don’t crash into another plane, if you don’t mind” just to make them stew in their stupidity when I next get to fly there IFR. Maybe like Timothy and his Avidyne crusade, if enough pilots shame them perhaps they’ll change?

Last Edited by AdamFrisch at 17 Jan 06:33

If you fly IFR to/in the UK, Adam, you will never be asked what service you require, because you will be in CAS and under radar control, in the Eurocontrol system

The issue illustrated in the video is as I wrote before: somebody wanted what in the US you call a popup IFR clearance. That doesn’t work in the UK. There are “shades of grey” around the rest of Europe but basically you “just don’t do it”. This guy may have filed a Eurocontrol flight plan but it didn’t do him any good because it was obviously OCAS (initially for sure) and thus got binned, which is a really really bad UK practice.

I think what happened was that ATC got scared at this flight heading for the major CAS areas and decided to hand them over to London Control so that they could at least be “known traffic”.

Of course the other problem is that Eurocontrol validation doesn’t take into account CAS, nor should it (because traditionally most IFR is in CAS) but very few pilots are trained to be aware of that. Most new IR holders think they have a valid FP so they can fly the route. It gets quite funny when you do it with a VFR FP

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

AdamFrisch wrote:

if enough pilots shame them perhaps they’ll change

Adam I do not think such a move would change anything as I think for most GA is a positive nuisance whether VFR or IFR. They believe they are there solely for the CONVENIENCE and PROTECTION of CAT which is also something believed by most of the major airports in the UK. Of course there are some really good ATC people and it makes me wonder if those who really help are also pilots!

UK, United Kingdom

A positive vote to the professional crew at Southend and Luton, both teams I have always found to be GA friendly.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom
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