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The reason why UL/LSA costs 150k+

The problem is most ‘plane’ pilots never flew an ‘UL’ and vice versa.

I think that is mainly due to the “social scene” division. The UL scene is very much about the social scene – even here in the UK

It’s same with helicopters versus fixed wing. The two rarely mix, for a number of reasons. We did consider having a rotary section on EuroGA in the early days but it was clear that it would have to be promoted totally differently, and while I had ~ 3k email contacts for getting EuroGA started, I didn’t have any heli contacts. Also most heli pilots use them mostly as tools and don’t hang on forums so much.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

jvdo wrote:

The problem is most ‘plane’ pilots never flew an ‘UL’ and vice versa.

That’s made more difficult by the different regulations (EU vs. national). Of course it depends on the country. In Sweden a PPL can’t fly even a conventional (rudder controlled) UL without additional training and ratings and of course pilots with UL licenses can even less fly EASA aircraft.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

This summer I had several PPL pilots “converted” to UL. One even had CPL/ATPL, and one CPL/FI was “converted” to UL instructor.

None of these had any problems whatsoever flying, but they used some time (and brain cells) to get into the UL jargon on the radio (countryside Norwegian), and to think more “seat of the pants” than “procedure”. Important when landing on a 300m “runway” in a river valley and you have to follow a winding river on final rather than a “final”

It was a bit of a change for me also, as the “new” examiner (an old fighter pilot and air force instructor), clearly told me to show these people what UL flying is “all about”. He was not interested in “examining” CPLs and FIs flying an UL at a controlled field in the same manner as they would fly a SEP (or Boeing for that matter). All CPL pilots can do that effortlessly anyway, because that is only a matter getting used to the particular aircraft.

The “old” examiner is more in the UL as a 1 to 1 substitute for certified aircraft, sort of, he is also a CRI.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

jvdo wrote:

The problem is most ‘plane’ pilots never flew an ‘UL’ and vice versa.

Most Cub-Pilots never fly Cirrus and vice versa. I would assume it has little to do with the SEP vs. UL separation (despite the licensing challenge that was mentioned before) and more with the type of flying people prefer.

Germany

Malibuflyer wrote:

and more with the type of flying people prefer.

How do you know you prefer “Cirrus flying” over “Cub flying” if you have never tried “Cub flying” ? I think that is the problem.

You stick with the only thing you have ever done, and use your fantasy and imagination to come up with all kinds of degrading “reasons” and excuses for why everything else is ultimately a bad idea. The only real reason you stick with your limited choice, is you have “invested” that much and want to get most out of it. Degrading everything else is one way of assuring to yourself you have done the “right” thing. It’s the mindset of a “fanboy”.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

When I had a share in a Pa28 and a current IMC Rating, I found flying outbound on top of cloud boring, and returned VFR under the cloud, through the valleys.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

Yes, but the original issue was people exclusively flying ULs and people exclusively flying “SEP”. It becomes a bit “made up” when sticking within only one of those categories.

A typical “fan boy” UL pilot will say that SEP pilots are stupid because you can do the same flights in a UL, cheaper, faster, much less bureaucracy etc. UL pilots fly much more, have more fun, more freedom etc.

A typical “fan boy” SEP pilot will say ULs are nothing but toys, dangerous toys. They can hardly even legally fly in the circuit with two persons on board due to MTOW limits. Much less travel longer distances with two persons. No VFR-N, no IFR, no aerobatics, no luggage capacity etc

They are both “right”. The point is, they focus on the ups of their own category, and the downs of the other. People flying both focus on the ups. They typically chose a UL for easy, local VFR and rent a IFR/aerobatics plane for those things. Or the other way around. It’s not one or the other, it’s “yes both please”

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

LeSving wrote:

They typically chose a UL for easy, local VFR and rent a IFR/aerobatics plane for those things. Or the other way around. It’s not one or the other, it’s “yes both please

Yes to both and I love flying each one to it’s purpose , but from experience to take Mooney/Diamond/Cirrus to Cubs/Pipistrel strips you need +30kts headwinds but then you are not flying tailwheels or microlights that day so we tend to do the reverse: fly the Pipistrel/Cub to SEP airfields

Same story between gliding & power, gliding airfields tends to be less welcoming to power visitors (mostly due to noise complaints, one CFI send me an email with a picture of my “propeller aircraft” on final by a neighbour)

On microlights, fixed-wings or flex-wings, I never felt learning any additional flying skills, the main advantages were, the community and number of airfields you can visit as well as cheap costs and easy entry ticket to ownership without the hassle and cost of certified aircraft (getting hangar for UL is piece for of cake), unlike gliding, where I felt it add a lot to my flying skills and exposure to environment, you need to work your brain and rudder skills a lot to stay up or go far and I have been close to nasty terrain & weather, that I would not even dare flying near in any touring SEP, but the disadvantage is you are not going anywhere

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

It took me a little while to get my muscle memory to remember push to go up and pull to go down on flex wings.

France

I’d never risk a flexwing or gyro as my reactions are far too engrained after almost 62 years of 3-axis, glider then power.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom
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