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Thermawing

Does anyone have any experience of the Thermawing (E-Vade) system on the Columbia/Corvalis aircraft? I see there is a 400 for sale in Europe which has the system…and reading the Kelly Aerospace website they are planning an STC for the Cirrus as well…. But I note that Cessna / KA seem to have given up on getting it FIKI certified….the 400TTx FIKI recently announced uses TKS….

Last Edited by AnthonyQ at 07 Mar 02:03
YPJT, United Arab Emirates

A search here picks up multiple hits on thermawing but I don’t recall seeing a case where somebody owned the plane long-term and could speak for it. I don’t think many were fitted. The sales of the C400 could probably be counted on one’s fingers, too, especially in Europe.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Hi Anthony. I put 150 hours on a Columbia 400 over the last couple of years, mostly long distance IFR between Malta and Northern Europe including winter. I found the Thermawing system worked well. Unlike boots, it is also an anti-ice system so you can leave it on all the time when in possible (but not known ) icing conditions. If you turn it on after ice has accumulated, it is very heartening to watch it pulse through its start-up cycle then bingo, the ice suddenly departs. Although not certified as FIKI, it seems effective at keeping wings and horiz. stab. clear of ice over the coverage area of the Thermawing elements. A further advantage is that there is no TKS fluid to worry about.

As an addendum, I found the Columbia 400 to be an excellent and reliable tool. Great control response, almost a shame to punch on the excellent GFC700 autopilot at 400ft, but that’s how you fly it – it’s an IFR travelling machine. Vis out front is not as good as some, so one needs to get some flap down on a visual approach. Near turbine speeds, an honest 200+ KTAS at FL200 on 15.5 gph, +1000nm range, built like the proverbial brick you-know-what (twin carbon spars, certified in utility category), excellent cabin and build quality. I liked the speed brakes, come in hot with faster traffic then slow rapidly to flap limiting speed. Things to watch in that engine installation include the oil cooler and the starter adapter. Shame it’s not pressurised, as the construction looks like it was designed for that. Hence my change to a pressurised twin as a result of a change in our “mission requirements”. Hope this helps!

NeilC
EGPT, LMML

@Aviathor sent me this link which tends to suggest there is no runback problem and that the current system causes ice to break off as solid pieces.

That is not at all what I have heard previously. Can anyone confirm it? Maybe @NeilC can say what he found.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The Thermawing works by making a thin layer of ice really hot so it unsticks and breaks off, not by melting the ice. It also pulses, it does not keep the leading edge warm – the total energy required would be too much.

Wings with heated leading edges (in jets heating them with bleed air) on the other hand melt more of the ice.

So from the way they operate, runback icing is more likely in a heated leading-edge jet than in a thermawing setup. I don’t know at what point it becomes a problem, though.

In freezing rain, it all becomes moot as that runs back far enough regardless of which icing system is used…

Biggin Hill

I thought airliners had the leading edges so hot that the water droplets vapourised, so there was nothing to run back anyway.

One benefit of TKS is that the stuff itself runs back too…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Do they still install any system ? Or is it a thing of the past ?
Don’t know any new type built at the moment with this system. Maybe as retrofit for Columbia aircraft ?

Peter wrote:

I thought airliners had the leading edges so hot that the water droplets vapourised,…

I doubt that’s possible with masses of cold air flowing over it at Mach 0.8 . The trick is to turn anti-ice on early (our book says “with visible moisture below +10 degrees Celsius”) so that the droplets don’t freeze in the first place. When you allow siginificant amounts of ice to accumulate (as you would with de-icing boots otherwise those won’t work) then you will see the molten ice re-freezing behind the leading edge. I am the living proof that one does not necessarily fall out of the sky if this happens. But I will be more careful in the future.

Last Edited by what_next at 06 Oct 18:31
EDDS - Stuttgart

For about 40 years now, the state of the art is to not let ice accumulate before switching on the boots.

Rwy20 wrote:

For about 40 years now, the state of the art is to not let ice accumulate before switching on the boots.

Oh! Is it!

EDDS - Stuttgart
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