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Transponder/Static System Check IFR vs. VFR

Why precisely won’t this work in Europe? What is the difference in the ATC systems?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Why precisely won’t this work in Europe? What is the difference in the ATC systems?

You can’t keep flying mode C in Europe. You have to do the same transponder testing under EASA and under FAA, again no difference.

Then there is a difference on pitot static testing, which is not required for VFR (it is for IFR). I don’t know any European country which doesn’t have altimeter / encoding testing. Again you can ask (or see on your transponder) for flight level information. That only gives the correlation between altimeter and encoder. It doesn’t give any information on the quality of you altimeter, hence altimeter testing is needed.

Silvair indicates his altimeter is fine, because he verified it a different levels, however we don’t have altiports in the Netherlands for example, so that kind of testing isn’t possible at all here.

I fail to see significant differences. From the testing I do, I think all tests are quite similair, and don’t add much between full testing / or partial testing. From errors I discover during testing, I think it is usefull to do this testing.

JP-Avionics
EHMZ

You can’t keep flying mode C in Europe

You can. The big majority of light GA is nontransponding, or has an old Mode C, often with a broken or missing encoder.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Jesse wrote:

For me, ignoring these kind of test, is a bit like flying for 100 hours or more with the same oil, because you might be allowed to do so. While you might be allowed to do so, it wouldn’t be in the long term interest. In my opinion the MIP is below the bare minimum you should do.

What about an aircraft that flies 300 hrs/year? Does it make sense to do such checks of the pitot-static system and the transponder three times a year?

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Peter wrote:

You can. The big majority of light GA is nontransponding, or has an old Mode C, often with a broken or missing encoder.

We can do this over and over, but it seems an typical UK thing to do that. Maybe it is good to have those tested. Problems with encoder should be addressed before further flight.

Airborne_Again wrote:

What about an aircraft that flies 300 hrs/year? Does it make sense to do such checks of the pitot-static system and the transponder three times a year?

In my opinion no. I think annual or bi-annual makes more sense. Out of tolerance altimeters are quite common. Often they can be adjusted, sometimes they need exchange / repair. Five years I would say is too long.

JP-Avionics
EHMZ

You can’t keep flying mode C in Europe

We can do this over and over, but it seems an typical UK thing to do that. Maybe it is good to have those tested. Problems with encoder should be addressed before further flight.

So, Jesse, you are saying Mode S is mandatory in all of Europe, for all flight?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Jesse wrote:

In my opinion no. I think annual or bi-annual makes more sense. Out of tolerance altimeters are quite common. Often they can be adjusted, sometimes they need exchange / repair. Five years I would say is too long

AMC1 to CS-ACNS.A.GEN.010 requires a check of altitude correspondence and correct Mode S address transmission every 24 months for Mode S installations and this is in line with previous national requirements for Mode C transponders. We had a UK mandatory requirement which later became an EASA AD (AD 2006-0265), later replaced with SIB 2011-15R2 (http://ad.easa.europa.eu/ad/2011-15R2) which now recommends the 24 month testing.

Avionics geek.
Fairoaks. EGTF

Peter wrote:

So, Jesse, you are saying Mode S is mandatory in all of Europe, for all flight?

No, not yet, but more and more it will be, or you will be very limited. Flying mode C is not legal in the Netherlands. So you should have mode S or nothing and stay VFR below 1200 Ft and outside TMZ. This seriously limits flying. In The Netherlands I know maybe 5 aircraft without transponder, all others are mode S.
Some other countries have similair demands.
All new aircraft are mandatory to be with mode S for years now. mode C will die out. Mode S with ADS-B will be the future, like it or not.

JP-Avionics
EHMZ

AMC1 to CS-ACNS.A.GEN.010 requires a check of altitude correspondence and correct Mode S address transmission every 24 months for Mode S installations and this is in line with previous national requirements for Mode C transponders. We had a UK mandatory requirement which later became an EASA AD (AD 2006-0265), later replaced with SIB 2011-15R2 (http://ad.easa.europa.eu/ad/2011-15R2) which now recommends the 24 month testing.

Is that for EASA-reg aircraft, or all aircraft flying in European airspace?

No, not yet, but more and more it will be, or you will be very limited. Flying mode C is not legal in the Netherlands. So you should have mode S or nothing and stay VFR below 1200 Ft and outside TMZ. This seriously limits flying. In The Netherlands I know maybe 5 aircraft without transponder, all others are mode S.
Some other countries have similair demands.
All new aircraft are mandatory to be with mode S for years now. mode C will die out. Mode S with ADS-B will be the future, like it or not.

Which is hardly anywhere near your previous post, Jesse

You can’t keep flying mode C in Europe

regardless of how one stretches the grammar, isn’t it?!

Huge chunks of Europe are not adopting Mode S for VFR, especially VFR OCAS.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The EASA SIB is just for EASA aircraft. It’s no different in reality to the FAA FAR91 bi-annual requirements for transponders.

Avionics geek.
Fairoaks. EGTF
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